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Last post: 08 May at 10:53
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Posted on 19 February 12 at 22:37 |
Nier is certainly one of the most soulful games of this generation, along with Deadly Premonition and Limbo. 'That' moment in Bioshock is another contender. However, I'm not sure any of them would quite qualify as art.
The basic problem is that art is supposed to make you feel something. Games have the problem that they're main aim is 'fun', and the two things don't combine very well.
That's not to say this can't change in future. Games like the ones mentioned above, and some of the more experimental games from the indie PC scene like Dear Esther certainly come close, and within a few years, I suspect 'art games' will be fairly common. However, they're always going to be a niche thing, just like literary fiction sells far less copies than James Paterson / Dan Brown books, and arthouse cinema has far fewer fans than Hollywood blockbusters. |
Last post: 17 Apr at 15:57
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Posted on 19 February 12 at 22:46 |
| Nier definitely made me "feel something". The story was one of the most well written storylines I have ever seen in a video game. You really got emotionally attached to the characters. And the music is by far some of the best pieces of music ever recorded for a video game. The developers created a language for the game, and wrote all the songs in that language. If that's not considered art, but Ghost Rider is, then there's something wrong with this world. |
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Posted on 19 February 12 at 23:07 |
Dancing Rob said:Nier is certainly one of the most soulful games of this generation, along with Deadly Premonition and Limbo. 'That' moment in Bioshock is another contender. However, I'm not sure any of them would quite qualify as art.
The basic problem is that art is supposed to make you feel something. Games have the problem that they're main aim is 'fun', and the two things don't combine very well.
That's not to say this can't change in future. Games like the ones mentioned above, and some of the more experimental games from the indie PC scene like Dear Esther certainly come close, and within a few years, I suspect 'art games' will be fairly common. However, they're always going to be a niche thing, just like literary fiction sells far less copies than James Paterson / Dan Brown books, and arthouse cinema has far fewer fans than Hollywood blockbusters.There are multiple games that have made me feel something. The ending to Red Dead Redemption, Aries' death in FF VII and the entirety of Limbo. Fun and feeling emotion combine very well as a matter of fact. Your logic is completely backwards. I want to have fun in increase my happiness or to entertain myself, in turn, increasing my happiness. Games do that. |
Countless the dead slaughtered in your name. Not an utter of your voice have you once repaid. |
Last post: 24 Sep 12 at 06:29
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 00:07, Edited on 20 February 12 at 00:08 by Potato Handle |
Yes, games can be art, and games can be improved by art, but games that feature art as a prominent element, are nearly always worse off because of it. Limbo is the example everyone is using, and ignoring the graphics, under a critical gameplay microscope, it is a short, incredibly basic puzzle/platformer.
It infuriates me to see games like Limbo take awards for anything other than artistic direction, just because it was gory and in black and white. This for me is an example of a game made worse by a primary pursuit of art; remove the art and there's not much left to enjoy.
The comparison for me is Braid, the main element of the game is an incredibly clever gameplay mechanic, and the game is improved by a great selection of artistic backdrops which add a lot to the game, however you could draw everything with lines and stick figures and still have a good game on your hands. |
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Last post: Today at 11:00
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 00:30 |
| Rayman Origins and Portal are art to me. And lots of older games. |
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Last post: Yesterday at 12:42
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 00:36 |
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 00:37, Edited on 20 February 12 at 00:41 by |
Potato Handle said:Yes, games can be art, and games can be improved by art, but games that feature art as a prominent element, are nearly always worse off because of it. Limbo is the example everyone is using, and ignoring the graphics, under a critical gameplay microscope, it is a short, incredibly basic puzzle/platformer.
It infuriates me to see games like Limbo take awards for anything other than artistic direction, just because it was gory and in black and white. This for me is an example of a game made worse by a primary pursuit of art; remove the art and there's not much left to enjoy.
So what? Since when does a being a simple platformer make it a bad game. It's obviously not a game centered around the gameplay or drama filled story. Gameplay isn't the only thing that qualifies a game to be good and it's hardly something that distinguishes a game as art. There are people that enjoy simple platformers. Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean it's a not a good game. Besides, that's not even the discussion. Obviously you have a distaste for the game. |
Countless the dead slaughtered in your name. Not an utter of your voice have you once repaid. |
Last post: 21 May at 00:52
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 01:02 |
| Honestly though I agree with most people above. It doesn't matter what one guy thinks about the validity of games as art. Eventually society will come to accept it is so and then move onto the next entertainment medium to to criticize as artless. When cameras first came out, photography would never have been called art, but then people accepted it as so, then the art critics turned to the newly introduced film medium and did exactly the same. Now we're at video games, and those who didn't study their own history are simply repeating it. |
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Last post: Today at 03:07
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 01:21 |
Mickey Burns said:That is where the "up to individual interpretation" comes into play. Art is only art if someone sees it as such.
For example, when I tap my foot or bang my thumbs on my steering wheel while driving to the rhythm of the music, I am not making art. However, if I apply the same rhythmic movement to a drum or a set of strings, I am making art. If I were to jump up and down at a rock concert, I am not making art; however, put me into a leotard and on stage and I am.
Art is a subject that is not so cut and dry ... it isn't so much a matter of it is or it isn't ... an "all or nothing" mindset. Not only do you have to evaluate the motives behind the creation, but you really have to consider its value to you as a viewer. One can say that all architecture is art. The mini-mart down the street from you ... is that art? It is architecture, in a very loose sense of the term, but architecture none-the-less. Is it art? No.CoMANdo DOOM said:I actually take back my original opinion now that I've spent the day thinking about it. I don't consider all games art but there are some I do. To me, I consider art to be something open to interpretation. You can interpret SOME plays, SOME movies, etc. The same goes for games. Games like Madden and Call of Duty have nothing open for interpretation. You play football and you're fighting a war. That's it.
Limbo is the first game that I've truly felt, is very close to being art. That game left me feeling and hypothesizing for quite a while. The mixture of the sound effects and a unique art style combined with no dialogue or clear story had me thinking on it for quite some time. "A boy uncertain of his sister's fate enters Limbo."
To me, art gives you just enough to get you thinking. From that point, everything is left up to you.I guess that's where we disagree. I don't see "what is art?" as up for interpretation. I see "what is good art?" up for interpretation, but art is basically any physical, visible way of someone expressing themselves. Their thoughts, enjoyments, feelings, things like that. Their thoughts, enjoyments, and feelings may look like shit, but how does it not qualify as art?
Doom, you can interpret any game. Even sports games and war games. You may not interpret it the same way as someone else (You interpret it as just a sports game, or just fighting a war, others do not) but you're still interpreting it as something. |
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Last post: 24 Sep 12 at 06:29
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 01:34, Edited on 20 February 12 at 06:51 by Potato Handle |
CoMANdo DOOM said:Potato Handle said:-- Trimmed --
So what? Since when does a being a simple platformer make it a bad game. I never said it was a bad game, I just said it was basic and relied far too heavily on its art. I played the Steam version and it wasn't too bad, it wasn't broken, it was challenging at times, etc. But the amount of totally irrelevant awards and nominations that it got bugs me to no end. "Technical Excellence" and "Innovation" are official ones that come to mind, although this trait is most noticeable in the fanbase.
People seem to remove their critical thinking abilities from the equation when talking about art, and once something is deemed as good in the art category, it intrinsically becomes better in any category you care to mention in the eyes of those people.
Gameplay isn't the only thing that qualifies a game to be goodCorrect; but it is a pre-requisite. A game with terrible gameplay can seldom be saved by anything else, a game with terrible sound, graphics, art, or just about anything else can always be saved by it's gameplay if it's good and/or unique enough. |
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Last post: Today at 10:54
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 02:22 |
| Games I don't believe are art. Parts of games can be art. But as a whole, no. I would say the more choice someone other than the creator has over the end result, the less like art it is. |
So much for pathos... |
Last post: Today at 00:06
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 06:44, Edited on 20 February 12 at 06:48 by RadiantViper |
Where's the "Who cares" option? 
I keep seeing this debate pop up and I have no idea why. Whether or not games are art has absolutely zero effect on the effect I receive from playing the game. I don't get why people strive to attach some meaningless label - people can't even agree what it means - to games. Yes, video games should get more recognition instead of being written off by the general public, but I think there are better ways than this whole "art" debate. I just find this whole thing a bit silly, I dunno. |
Last post: 19 May at 13:32
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 08:42, Edited on 20 February 12 at 08:43 by zyxomma100 |
1. If you have to wonder if something is art, then by definition it is art.
2. Up to hundreds of artists can work together to create a video game. You have writers, musicians, graphic designers, all of who create pieces of art. Each of their creations, on their own, would be considered art, and not a single person would bat an eye. but put all this art together, and suddenly it's not art because someone had the gall to call it a "video game?"
Every video game is art. Even Yaris. (Art can be bad.) |
Last post: 15 Mar at 18:12
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 09:05 |
| I definitely think games can be art. For example, I played Dear Esther on PC yesterday, and that was the most artistic, powerful "game" I've ever played. Wow. |
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Last post: Today at 12:58
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 09:17 |
| El Shaddai Ascension of the Metatron is art for me :3 but games like LA Noir and Grand Theft Auto are not art imo. |
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Last post: 08 May at 10:53
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 09:22 |
OfficerBarbrady said: If that's not considered art, but Ghost Rider is, then there's something wrong with this world.Ghost Rider isn't art either.
Some people here seem to be taking the view that any form of creative media is art, whether that be Iron Man 2, an 80s hit from New Kids on the Block, or Van Gogh. If you take that view, then all video games are almost by definition art.
To take things off at a slight tangent, it's notable that most games we think of with 'good stories' would actually be 'second rate genre film / fiction' if translated to film / book.
To take RDR as an example (one of my favourite games this gen by the way), the story & characters are basically a compendium of every western cliche ever, and if it was a film / book, we wouldn't even be having a discussion of whether it was art. That's not to say the moment where you discover where your wife is and the music starts playing, and you then ride like the wind isn't brilliantly done, but it's not art.
likewise, the plot of Mass Effect is basically akin to a bad season of Stargate or something similar, nowhere near the levels of decent sci-fi stuff like Firefly or Battlestar Galactica. (I'm not generally a sci-fi fan.) Again, that's not to say it's terrible, it's another of my favourite games but it's not art either. |
Last post: 16 Mar at 18:22
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 12:05 |
| I'm looking for the who cares what other people think button because video games will NEVER be accepted as art in our society. When people think of games they think exactly of that...a game...like monopoly or scrabble..something to play to have fun and thats it. I dont know much about art because i dont care to really know but i do know it is extremely subjective. Tell Ebert or whatever his name is to play FFX all the way thru throughly without any kind of bias and then come back to me and look me staright in the eyes and tell me its just a game...that game me wailing at the end and i can only imagine that others here have similar stories with similar games they played. |
Last post: Yesterday at 08:28
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 12:28 |
For me games are moving away from being art. Just like movies are doing in the last few years. Or compare it to alcohol. There's 18-year-old, well-distilled whiskey which will cost you a tiny fortune and there's factory-booze you get for less than 5 dollars the bottle. Yeah both are alcohol, and technically they're even both whiskeys, but experts won't refer to the 5-$-bottle whiskey.
Games used to be art some generations ago. But nowadays games are just a copy of a copy of a copy. No art in there. Only a few games manage to stand out of the mass. In this generation alone I'd only consider a handful of games a piece of art.
Some of you say every game is a piece of art - some are just bad art. Well, that lies in the eye of the beholder. Because even a turd on a canvas may be considered art by a few people. So I'd like to choose my personal definition of art a little more critical.
For me a piece of art has to have something unique too, because IMO whether it's art or it's a copy of something - both at the same time doesn't work out for me. |
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Last post: 21 May at 21:22
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 12:44 |
| If Limbo can win a BAFTA... |
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Last post: Today at 04:54
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Posted on 20 February 12 at 14:55 |
Video games are as much or no more art than books. Including those racy, cheesy, sexual books or children's books or pop up books.
If books aren't art, neither are video games. If books are, then so are video games. That includes Sneak King. |
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