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Last post: 16 May at 06:14
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Posted on 14 June 12 at 09:12 |
Orientals Hero said:also you guys should be more consistent with your decision !
boosting is not cheating ?
so i start to play a new multiplayer game and at my level 3 I found already some players at level 40 after 2 days the game is out, they have perk and weapon that I can have only after 2 weeks, so I'm underpowered and easy to kill.
Why this is approved from you ?because you achieve it by actually spending your real life time doing it, rather than using 3rd party tools to tamper with your system or gamertag |
Nerd Rage: http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=280 |
Last post: 14 Jun 12 at 09:44
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Posted on 14 June 12 at 09:44, Edited on 14 June 12 at 09:48 by Say Hi To Robot |
I like both of the ideas, gamerscore tracking only and partial tracking.
A good idea would be to do partial tracking at first and just remove the cheated games from the tracking. After a set number of games removed (maybe 3 or 5), the account is switched to gamerscore only tracking.
At the very least, let everyone set up and join sessions. There are many people, myself included, that don't care as much about the achievement tracking as joining sessions. |
Last post: 15 May at 14:35
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Posted on 14 June 12 at 14:34, Edited on 14 June 12 at 15:02 by Choskie |
Jayour said:Actually it says "Reported Content Evaluator". Nice to know when you're proven wrong that you don't even care though.
Even if my site title had that word in it (which as I've pointed out, it doesn't), it also has other words in it too.  Here's a printscreen of what I see:
http://i48.tinypic.com/xwv9i.png
You didn't need to be patronizing. Acting like a child provoked me to act like a child in return and we're WAY off-topic here.
So, on-topic - I'm seeing a lot of ideas here I could warm to, I'm still strongly of the view that you've either cheated or you haven't, nothing in-between.
I could understand the 3 strike system if there is NO proof that the person has cheated and might have been an unlucky individual with glitchy achievements - but downright cheaters should be 0 TA'd, and I stand by that. Sorry. |
Last post: 31 Mar at 16:11
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Posted on 14 June 12 at 17:30 |
| Ha, okay then. This actually all started after you telling me my opinion shouldn't matter because I'm a member of staff. You're right though, we're getting off topic and I commend you for steering it back! |
Last post: 01 May at 21:56
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Posted on 14 June 12 at 18:10 |
| I support this new information...I would like to see cheaters get 3 strikes and then they should get banned. |
Last post: 15 May at 14:35
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Posted on 14 June 12 at 19:03 |
Jayour said:Ha, okay then. This actually all started after you telling me my opinion shouldn't matter because I'm a member of staff. You're right though, we're getting off topic and I commend you for steering it back! I'm a woman, and whilst I try to shake off the stereotype given, my hormones screw me over now and then  !
I don't know if I mentioned before, but I would *definitely* like to see the gamerscore only tracking introduced - so that even if someone IS wrongly punished, they have some kind of tracking available to them :} !
Would it also be an option for regular users to use, too? That could be interesting to see how my stats/badges are altered xD. |
Last post: 16 May at 01:14
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Posted on 14 June 12 at 19:23 |
| moogless said:LearFool said:moogless said:^your idea is awful and will never happen learfool.Can you share the reasoning behind your opinion, moogless? I see that you have about 12% of your achievements unlocked offline (mine is ~4%). Sorting by TAr, there isn't any indication that you go offline to unlock high TAr achievements. Based on the calculations above, I think your TA score wouldn't be affected much. It might even increase.there is no differnce between playing online and offline, seperating their TA score is not the "true TA". |
Last post: 16 May at 01:14
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Posted on 14 June 12 at 19:38 |
And I know this is off topic, but I have an idea for the ratio system. Since I know multiple site members are reading this, it's easier to post it here than PMing them all.
Include tiers based on the number of people who have played the game in the formula. Too often I see low ratios because they're based on a percentage and only ~500 people have played a game, when the game is significantly harder than the ratio leads on (ex. megaman 10 has a lower ratio than mw3)
Generally I'm finding that harder games with <5000 people having played it have an inaccurate representation of ratio (dark souls has almost the same ratio as sesame street once upon a monster because of the percentage of people who have completed it). Often times these games are the games people play and plan to 1k regardless of time and effort, but the only people playing them are the ones who enjoy tackling hard games. a lower number of people playing a game ensures a lower number of completions overall, but if it's based on a percentage than a game with 100 people having played it and 10 people completing it will result in a 1.7ish ratio when those 10 people could have put 500+ hours in the game whereas the other 90 didn't.
All I'm saying is with problems like that and the kinect ratios, the ratio system as a whole is in a way, broken imo. It shouldn't be based on percentages without taking into consideration the number of people who have played the game.
Hopefully you guys take this into consideration. Should be as simple as including a multiplier or something in the formula. Have tiers for every 1000 people up to 5000, and then every 5000 up to whatever |
Last post: 20 Aug 12 at 13:26
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Posted on 14 June 12 at 20:12 |
I like the GS only tracking idea just because it protects the TA ratios this site is all about. Removing a single game from someone's profile does not necessarily does that, because who knows how many more achievements were obtained unfairly.
However as I stated before, this idea will fail when it comes to keeping the offenders active on the site. No one chooses to be part of a community where you are considered a pariah. |
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Posted on 14 June 12 at 21:54 |
Some of my favourite quotes from the first page:-
"Friend feeds stagnate as no one can see what they are playing. Additionally if someone who has 100 games on their card is removed for three cheated games, TA loses all the data on the other 97 games."
Who gives a toss what a cheater is playing?!
"As the community shrinks we have less people who are willing to boost games with us, or participate in the crazy 1,000 people online at the same time events."
Again, who cares? You say the 'community shrinks' but you're surely talking about a minority of people. I hope I'm not alone here but I want ALL of the cheats on this website weeded out. I'd prefer for the community to shrink if it meant a clean/honest community was what remained.
I'm sorry but I can't help but think that the way this whole topic has been worded is that TA is starting to find it acceptable for cheats to use this site.
I can understand TA not wanting the community split but it is regardless, whether you like it or not.
You reset cheaters gamerscores & then try to give them another chance but if they really want a clean start, they should start a new gamertag and prove it. I wouldn't let anyone join a boosting session I created if they had zero gamerscore because of a reset. It's not the type of gamer/person I'd associate with.
Time to give us all a bit of insight as to why a cheater would not just totally be removed from this website? Does money come into? Does it matter if they have a TA Pro Account etc? |
Last post: 18 Jun 12 at 15:19
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Posted on 14 June 12 at 22:03 |
| I feel that the gamer score only option is the only way to preserve the integrity of this site while allowing for people to still be a part of the community as a paying member of this site i feel this is the best option partial tracking will force me to not re up my pro script next year im sorry to be so blunt about it but this is an investment i take seriously and i like to think my money is being spent to ensure that the site is show the true statistics of my time spent on xbox im a stay at home dad so most my time is spent on xbox and ta so i would like to see the integrity of the site preserved and i thank you for ask the public our opinion on this matter |
slacker424 |
Last post: 16 Dec 12 at 19:22
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Posted on 14 June 12 at 23:17 |
I think Partial Tracking is the way to go. I, for one, am one of those people who's account was turned off because of cheating. I am not proud of what I did four years ago but I can't change the past. At the time I thought it was cool to have all my games completed 100% and I was willing to cheat to get it. I now play for fun and take pride in completing the games on my own.
I am truly for what I've done in the past and have message TA to see if they could reverse their decision to no avail.
I would have no problem have those games in questioned removed from my account as long as I could have the legit games listed and be able to participate in the community.
Please consider switching to Partial Tracking. |
Last post: 25 Mar at 03:15
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Posted on 14 June 12 at 23:32 |
| I say if you are caught cheating, kill the tag. The site is called TRUEACHEIVEMENTS.COM, not "some achievements earned illegitimately please forgive my indiscretions.com". Stop tracking them. They want back in, suck it up and buy a new name and this time don't cheat. |
Last post: 08 Mar at 10:36
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Posted on 15 June 12 at 00:21 |
I support the partial tracking. As pointed out the consquences of the current system seem to punish a lot of people, not all of whom deserve it.
While everyone is screaming about cheaters being cheaters take a few things into account one being it's not just them that get punished. If you had read the whole thing like they asked you would have noticed that.
Really I support whatever choice the TA site makes but I don't see this whole "punish all cheaters no matter what" to be that important. |
Last post: 27 Jan at 07:02
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Posted on 15 June 12 at 02:28 |
| This doesn't really bother me much so whatever happens is fine. with I'm just here to get achievements 'cause I love getting them, I don't care about ratio, and all of that stuff. It realy doesn't bother me how someone gets an achievement either, it just might make me envy them if they have it, and I don't haha. |
Last post: 03 May at 19:17
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Posted on 15 June 12 at 02:52, Edited on 15 June 12 at 02:54 by pyr0lyZer |
Wow...long read, lots of info to process and comments to make on several fronts...here's my input for the Investigation Team's and community's consideration:
- Boosting is not cheating IF you are working within the parameters the game developer delivered. If you are "playing" the game with a group of boosters to purposely work on an achievement, but are not manipulating files and/or game saves, it's not cheating. TA's cheating policy also states as much: "Boosting for multiplayer achievements online with a group of friends or friends in any games is considered acceptable."
- If it looks like a cheater, smells like a cheater, and walks like a cheater...its probably a cheater.
- With the above being said, there are clear examples cited of software glitches causing unintentional achievements, so it's hard to classify that as cheating. Its hard to be able to distinguish glitches from authentic cheating. The point is that a gamer who experiences a random glitch or someone who gets their account hacked (and could likely prove it so...) shouldn't be labeled a cheater.
- I personally despise cheaters and cheating just to get achievements, based on moral grounds. HOWEVER, there are a lot of things in this world I think are morally wrong, yet I can't control those things and many of them don't directly impact me. Although, in the present discussion, one could argue that the cheated achievements do impact TA ratios, which do impact me. Yet, I also believe the amount of cheated achievements is relatively small (re: StingX2's argument), so all in all, they likely do not affect the TA ratios all that much in the grand scheme of things. Take Seriously 3.0 for example...if 20 out of the 486 people unlocked it by cheating, the ratio is still going to be well over 13. Obviously, if 400 people cheated it, that's a different story.
- I believe TA should take a "no tolerance" policy on PROVEN cheaters. No reason to let a few people get away with it who repeatedly do it.
- The word "proven" above is the operative word. Instead of a 3-strike policy, GS only tracking, or partial tracking, I think first there should be a substantially improved Appeal process. A gamer can be notified by TA that they are suspected of cheating, and can "hear arguments" from the gamer regarding the situation. It's the gamer's responsibility to prove "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that they didn't cheat. I think that a vote by the TA staff may not be sufficient (re: porschephiliac's situation). Let's face it, the alleged cheating gamer is "on trial". Let's improve the appeal process. Let's pick a random set of TA "peers" to act as a jury, and thereby ask the community to help the TA staff identify PROVEN cheaters, just as would be done in a court of law.
- The best argument I've seen presented so far for GS-Only tracking is that Microsoft is responsible for gamerscore, TA is responsible for TA score. Therefore, my opinion is if we have identified a proven cheater in the TA community, their entire gamercard should be removed from the TA calculations. Again...walks, talks, smells? It's probably a cheater.
- Finally, I'll support whatever TA decides to go with, but at the end of the day, I would like to see something put in place to keep identified cheaters from participating in the community. Whether that is a "scarlet letter" on their profile page to let gaming session organizers/participants know that a cheater is in their midst, or preventing them from joining gaming sessions altogether would be appreciated. |
You can't have everything...where would you put it? |
Last post: 02 Apr at 09:52
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Posted on 15 June 12 at 04:28 |
Phoenix C64 said:Orientals Hero said:also you guys should be more consistent with your decision !
boosting is not cheating ?
so i start to play a new multiplayer game and at my level 3 I found already some players at level 40 after 2 days the game is out, they have perk and weapon that I can have only after 2 weeks, so I'm underpowered and easy to kill.
Why this is approved from you ?because you achieve it by actually spending your real life time doing it, rather than using 3rd party tools to tamper with your system or gamertagso a stupid example , we both are F1 drivers, we going to use the same model of car for a competition , you got the car 20 days before I got the car 2 days before the comp! , so you have plenty time to adjust and set you car, I don't have all this time !! I think you can figure out who win ! it's this right for you ? |
Last post: 18 Dec 12 at 22:40
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Posted on 15 June 12 at 05:48 |
| Why would anyone want to cheat for their achievement's. There's a huge sense of accomplishment when you get a grind achievement. |
Last post: 16 May at 06:14
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Posted on 15 June 12 at 06:01 |
Orientals Hero said:Phoenix C64 said:Orientals Hero said:also you guys should be more consistent with your decision !
boosting is not cheating ?
so i start to play a new multiplayer game and at my level 3 I found already some players at level 40 after 2 days the game is out, they have perk and weapon that I can have only after 2 weeks, so I'm underpowered and easy to kill.
Why this is approved from you ?because you achieve it by actually spending your real life time doing it, rather than using 3rd party tools to tamper with your system or gamertagso a stupid example , we both are F1 drivers, we going to use the same model of car for a competition , you got the car 20 days before I got the car 2 days before the comp! , so you have plenty time to adjust and set you car, I don't have all this time !! I think you can figure out who win ! it's this right for you ?another stupid example:
an athlete spends 2 years training for a race. you didn't train at all because you're lazy. is it normal that the other athlete wins? ofc.
stop whining. |
Nerd Rage: http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=280 |
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Posted on 15 June 12 at 09:10 |
My suggestion is a 3 strike rule
First occurrence - cheated achievement is removed and gamer warned
Second occurrence - xbox gamerscore tracked only and a cheater marker displayed
Third occurrence - instant ban from the site |