Game Info Submission Archive: Kinect Sesame Street TV Forum

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Kinect Sesame Street TV - Game Info submissions

Related game: Kinect Sesame Street TV

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Posted on 24 September 12 at 16:04
Bozack has just submitted some Game Info for Kinect Sesame Street TV:

Kinect Support change from Kinect enabled to Kinect required

Bozack said:See this thread for the discussion on how this game will not work without a Kinect on your Xbox.

Kinect Sesame TV DVD - Game Info submissions

Should be Kinect Required for sure.
Bozack
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Last post: 12 Nov 12 at 21:34
Posted on 24 September 12 at 17:00, Edited on 24 September 12 at 17:01 by Bozack
From the other thread:

Here is a link to the Microsoft page with details on Sesame Street TV (not the DVD version):

http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/Kinect-Sesame-Stre...

It is very obvious down on the right where the logo for "Kinect Required" is shown.

Again, I don't feel like it is your job to try and dissect the games to decide when Microsoft has incorrectly labeled a game that is so obvious that Kinect is required. It isn't like 1 achievement, or 1 part of the game requires the Kinect.

765 of the 1000 achievement points in the App version REQUIRE the Kinect. As it was stated above, for an achievement website you are misleading your members into thinking they can buy this game (which isn't even possible without buying the DVD and getting the DVD code is it???) and obtain the majority of the achievements without a Kinect Sensor.

I understand your logic in that some of the points can be obtained with actually standing in front of the Kinect sensor. However there are many Kinect Required games that also have achievements you don't have to stand in front of the sensor.

- The vast majority of the game is played in front of the Kinect.
- Microsoft labels it as Kinect Required.
- The community here at TA is requesting it be labeled as Kinect Required.
Posted on 24 September 12 at 18:07
COTTERS3000 has just submitted some Game Info for Kinect Sesame Street TV:

Kinect Support change from Kinect enabled to Kinect required

COTTERS3000 said:seeing as arournd 75% of the achievements require you to have a kinect and the fact that the game is called KINECT Sesame Street TV it should be changed. Like I said in another post, who is going to buy this unless they have a kinect?
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TrueAchievements ModeratorTrueAchievements Game Info Editor7,030 posts
Last post: Yesterday at 23:36
Posted on 24 September 12 at 22:33
Thanks for your submissions. Just to clarify something immediately, this thread is for the Digital App version of the Kinect Sesame Street games, not the Physical version. There are differences between the two, one of them being that the Kinect is not required on the Digital version while it is required on the physical version.

It has been confirmed by members of this site (including but not limited to the Game Info team) that the Digital version can be played without the Kinect. That is all that matters towards the placing of this game in Kinect Enabled over Required. No matter how you try to look at it, it is simply not REQUIRED that you own a Kinect to use this app. Required would imply that it is absolutely necessarily you own a Kinect to use it, which is not the case with this game.

And just as further information, we don't look at achievements when assigning things like platforms or genres. Imagine if Forza 4, for example, only had that one achievement requiring a Kinect and no others. Clearly, it still wouldn't be required to own a Kinect to play that game, as Kinect integration would still merely be enabled for that game. Achievements do not define a game, rather, the gameplay elements and peripheral integration (if required/needed) define a game.
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Bozack
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Last post: 12 Nov 12 at 21:34
Posted on 24 September 12 at 23:51, Edited on 25 September 12 at 00:20 by Bozack
You guys have seriously no clue at all about this. We are not comparing this game to Forza, or Madden, or Harry Potter, or Family Game Night, or any of the other games that have additional features that are available IF you have a Kinect. Those are obviously labeled by Microsoft correctly as "Better with Kinect".

Seriously, I have played the entire DVD game, start to finish. I have played the App version (which, yes, is the one we are talking about) from start to finish. Have any of you played both of the games start to finish yet?

How are any of you qualified to make a decision on this game without playing the entire game? xPut Name Herex you have not played the game. alklein92201 from the other thread you played the game through the 18 achievements for watching clips but then after 2 achievements that you had to actually use the Kinect you stopped playing. Neither of you are qualified to make a decision on this matter.

I used the achievements to show the percentage of the game that is split up by achievements to show how much the Kinect is REQUIRED to play this game. No, it is not something like "if you want to make an out loud audible in Madden 13 you need to have a Kinect". Nor is it like Forza 4 that allows you to turn the view inside the car if you have a Kinect and physically turn your head.

In this game, the MAIN portion of the story REQUIRES you to have a Kinect. Yes, you can launch the APP and see the menu without a Kinect. Yes you can launch little clips of Sesame Street without a Kinect. However the 8 MAIN episodes of the story that you play through all require the Kinect to play.

So you guys are NOT CORRECT. You cannot play the digital version of the game without the Kinect. You can watch video clips without the Kinect but you CANNOT PLAY the 8 main episodes of the game without the Kinect.

It is absolutely necessary that you own a Kinect to play this game. If you try to play this game without a Kinect the majority of the game will be unplayable.

Show me ONE other game that is labeled by Microsoft as Kinect Required that should be categorized as Kinect Enabled.
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TrueAchievements ModeratorTrueAchievements Game Info Editor7,030 posts
Last post: Yesterday at 23:36
Posted on 25 September 12 at 01:30, Edited on 25 September 12 at 01:30 by xPut Name Herex
First off, I would like to apologize, I thought I mentioned it but apparently forgot to, but we do not make decisions based off what Microsoft states. This is more prevalent at this time with genres, where I will draw my example from: the original Borderlands is labeled solely as a Shooter on the Microsoft website, but it was decided by members of the Game Info team on the site that it fit much better as an RPG, where we have placed it on the site. While any information from Microsoft is looked at in our process, it is not the end all, be all. We analyze it, consider it, and then make the best call based on definitions from the site.

As for similar situations to this, Kinect PlayFit comes to mind. There may be more but I do not know where to find a list of games Microsoft has labeled as Kinect Required that does not get a lot of the Kinect Enabled games mixed up in it.

The best I can hope to offer is this, I know it is not perfect but I hope it will illustrate my point: the Tambourine Master in Rock Band 3 requires you to be playing a vocal track in the game, but actually does not require a microphone at all. Songs can be started solely with a controller and no extra peripherals are needed, and by tapping A on the controller at the right time you can earn the achievement. You may not be able to play the game as intended (by actually singing), but you can still earn the achievement without a peripheral, so no peripheral is required.

That is the case. As you state here (in bold):

Bozack said:In this game, the MAIN portion of the story REQUIRES you to have a Kinect. Yes, you can launch the APP and see the menu without a Kinect. Yes you can launch little clips of Sesame Street without a Kinect. However the 8 MAIN episodes of the story that you play through all require the Kinect to play.this game in question does not require you to have a Kinect to access parts of it. Even though you may be missing parts of the game, and not playing it as intended (the unbolded parts of the quote), it is still not required to even own a Kinect to use this game. That is why it is labeled as Kinect Enabled, and will remain as such.

Again, I thank you for your time and submissions.
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UberToast
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Posted on 25 September 12 at 02:21, Edited on 25 September 12 at 02:24 by UberToast
I have been watching this debate through multiple threads and so far have kept out of it, but at this point I feel it is necessary to throw my 2 cents in...

It seems that the definition of "Kinect Required" and "Kinect Enabled" are not suitably understood. From my perspective - keep in mind I am only using my logical perception of the concepts -- my perspective would be that A "Kinect Required" title is somewhat self explanatory - Kinect is required to complete any fundamental / core components of the game/app/etc, no matter if one could start or access a portion of a game, if the game cannot be played as it was intended without the peripheral, then it is Kinect Required.

On the other hand if the game/app/etc all fundamental / core components of it can be played to completion without the Kinect participial, but could be augmented with the Kinect, then it is "Kinect Enabled."

While I have not yet played either of the versions of Sesame Street TV (I was intending to get it tomorrow), based on what I have seen and heard of the title, it would appear that you can access portions of it without Kinect, but it cannot be played or enjoyed to completion without the peripheral, therefore "Kinect Required" most certainly makes sense in my book.

For example - you could go to and enjoy the sporty lines and hoops of a Basketball court, but without a ball, you aren't going to play a game of Basketball. A ball is required to complete a game of hoops as a Kinect is required to complete a game of Sesame Street TV.
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TrueAchievements ModeratorTrueAchievements Game Info Editor7,030 posts
Last post: Yesterday at 23:36
Posted on 25 September 12 at 02:52
The current running definition for Kinect Required is that Kinect is 100%, no doubts, required to play the entire game. Being able to play any part of it without a Kinect is grounds for disqualification for a Kinect Required placement.

However, Ubertoast's post stating that the definitions are not suitably understood got me thinking, I don't think the definition for "Kinect Required" and "Kinect Enabled" are anywhere on this site (please correct me if I'm wrong), and have also just been assumed as a given. However, games like this one and others are stretching the definitions, so a clear definition is in order.

I will bring this up with the entire Game Info Team, and hopefully we can solve this situation and prevent further issues from cropping up!
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futiles
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Posted on 25 September 12 at 05:30
Or, perhaps rethinking your definition should be looked at...
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TrueAchievements ModeratorTrueAchievements Game Info Editor7,030 posts
Last post: Yesterday at 23:36
Posted on 25 September 12 at 05:35
That is what I was attempting to say, apologies if it did not come across as such.
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futiles
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Posted on 25 September 12 at 08:08
No problem. But yes, it came across more as just putting the existing definition in writing.

So, thank you for considering change.
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Last post: Yesterday at 14:57
Posted on 25 September 12 at 08:25
What a strange conclusion...so what you are saying is if a kinect can be started without a kinect connected and you can earn an achievement its only kinect enabled??

At least that is how it seems...great logic.
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Bozack
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Last post: 12 Nov 12 at 21:34
Posted on 25 September 12 at 12:40, Edited on 25 September 12 at 14:54 by Bozack
If you guys are using navigating the game without a Kinect sensor as the metric to give a game the Kinect Enabled title there is no question the definition needs to be "rewritten". But as you point out, I don't believe the definition for the genre is anywhere here on the site.

I am shocked that Kinect Playfit is not Kinect Required here on the site. I had not noticed actually, and I feel that your definitions of the genre are even more bizarre than I originally thought. Because you can navigate the menu in Kinect PlayFit with a controller you guys think that the Kinect is no required? What exactly can you do in the game without a Kinect? Watch your friends earn calories with THEIR KINECT SENSORS and unlock you achievements? Doesn't the game require your friends to have a Kinect sensor????? But I digress...

I don't want to just be a complainer. I can't stand it when folks complain but do not offer any solutions to problems. So I would like to suggest the following for the definition of the genre.

First and foremost, why in the world would you not use the achievements in the game as a metric for deciding the genre when this is an achievement website? I don't see the world coming to True Achievements to help them decide between Borderlands being a shooter or an RPG based on gameplay. Everyone who is here on this site is interested in the achievements in games. For goodness sake you own feeds publish that "BoZack has completed the game Avatar The Last Airbender" when someone finishes 5 achievements in 5 minutes, not when someone plays through the entire game.

But, since you are all so set on not using the achievements as a measuring device for a game's genre I will try to refrain from using them in the definition.

Here we go:

Kinect Required - Any game that requires a Kinect Sensor for 25% or more of the game play. This game was designed and created to use the Kinect Sensor.

Kinect Enabled - Any game that requires a Kinect Sensor for less than 25% of the game play. This game was designed as a non-Kinect game and just included the Kinect as an afterthought.

It would be MUCH easier to use those definitions when referring to the achievements in the game, because it would draw a HARD line in the sand. Very black and white. I think the entire problem with the Sesame Street games is that without using the achievements it all is gray and just someone's translation of the game's content.

I am using 25% because I feel that gives a game a solid majority to push it into the appropriate category. To be honest, Kinect Enabled is just the neutral ground between a Kinect game and a non-Kinect game. A game with 5% requiring a Kinect sensor is obviously just throwing in the Kinect as a fun feature. However a game that has 25% or more of the content requiring the Kinect sensor spent some time designing content specifically to use the accessory.

If someone on this website HATES the Kinect sensor and does not own one, I feel like they would stay VERY well clear of any Kinect Required games. They might put up with games like Madden 13, Forza 4, Family Game Night 4, etc because they really do not need a Kinect to play the majority of the game. However they would be upset if they downloaded the Kinect Sesame Street TV app, launched it and then all they could do is watch video clips.
Bozack
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Posted on 26 September 12 at 23:17
How are we doing on defining the rules between Kinect Required and Kinect Enabled? I would like to see this game and Play Fit moved into Kinect Required with the proper classification.
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Last post: Yesterday at 23:36
Posted on 26 September 12 at 23:46
The Game Info team is currently discussing a proper definition for the two. This will likely take some time to do as we hammer out the details, since a site-wide definition is clearly not something we want to be rushed, so I ask for everyone's patience as we settle on the matter! Thanks!
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Bozack
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Last post: 12 Nov 12 at 21:34
Posted on 26 September 12 at 23:56
No problem. I appreciate what you guys do, as I know you are all volunteers and do this out of the love of gaming. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
Bozack
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Last post: 12 Nov 12 at 21:34
Posted on 05 October 12 at 03:02
Bumping just to get a weekly check-up on this if possible.
Bozack
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Posted on 10 October 12 at 06:24
Yet another bump to check how this is going.
Bozack
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Posted on 13 October 12 at 15:30
[crickets]
planting42
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Posted on 13 October 12 at 16:22
Just found this thread and I have to toss in my 2 cents...

I use the Kinect required notation to find games that require me to use my Kinect. If what I read here is true, this designation is incorrect. To me, any game that requires you to use the Kinect at all... is Kinect required; including Forza 4. If you can complete it without ever touching a Kinect (PlayFit is special as it doesn't really require input - the games you use to earn calories do...) such as Blackwater or Halo: CE Anniversary - than I agree it is simply enabled. The key is the word 'complete'. To complete the game - you are required to use the Kinect. That really seems the way to break it down simply.
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