Gaming for enjoyment, or just for the 'chieves?

Gaming for enjoyment, or just for the 'chieves?

Has the world gone GS whoring mad?

Opinion by Skinstakovic on 01 February 10 at 17:18

Over the past few months, I have been regularly scanning over items in sentuamessage and online forums for the possibility of introducing achievements into original Xbox titles. There were a wealth of amazing games released for the console and I lost many a day to playing through these trying to unlock or complete as much of the game as possible. Having no programing background at all, I had no idea if this would even be possible, let alone how you would incorporate an unlocking system for game saves that you may already have.

Games like Tim Schafer's Psychonauts is a prime example. Completely different from anything that had come before, or since for that matter, I played through this game twice and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. But what if I had been rewarded with an achievement for obtaining every single figment of imagination? Could you imagine the TA ratio on something like that?

Then of course there is Criterion's Black. A superb shooter that was very modern warfare-esque and had some superb levels. How about an achievement for unlocking all of the silver weapons?

So here I was, staring at my 360's dashboard and pondering over downloading the two above games from Xbox originals... and you know what i asked myself?

"Is it really worth downloading them? After all I won't get any achievements or gamerscore."

And that was when it hit me: do we really play games for the experience of the game as an entity anymore, or is it all about those elusive achievements?

Since it's release in 1997, i have probably played through Final Fantasy VII about 5 times, start to finish. Why? Because if you ask me, it is still the greatest game to have ever graced any console or PC, period. From the relationship between Cloud and Sephiroth, the junctioning system, hunt for huge materia, the Highwind, chocobo racing, snow-boarding, full cast of great characters and compelling storyline it was truly an epic title. I have enjoyed playing it more than any other game I have ever owned. But you know what? Since I picked up my Xbox 360, I haven't played it once. And why?

Now I know this is going to be controversial being posted on a website that is dedicated to gamerscore and achievements, but are we really turning into a bunch of gamers who would rather sink 8 hours into My Horse And Me 2 for a quick 1000 GS than spend those same 8 hours really enjoying our gaming experience with a title we truly revel in the experience of? Now don't get me wrong, I have picked up Avatar: The Burning Earth for that exact reason, who hasn't, but are we all really okay with parting from great gameplay in our quest for gamerscore?

I suppose the only thing I am trying to say is, from one gamer to a bunch of others: boost all you want, whore all you want. I still do because I love the achievements coming in and truly feel like i have accomplished something when the elusive "pop" happens. But don't let that hunt take you away from the essence of why we are all here in the first place: because we love computer games and enjoy playing them for the experience.
The opinions and statements expressed in this article are solely those of the author, Skinstakovic.
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AuthorMessage
Count Flanders
55,04747 posts
Last post: 24 Aug at 02:11
Posted on 01 February 10 at 17:25
We should play the games because we enjoy it, not just for the Achievements. However, if used properly, Achievements can extend the game's length and/or re-playability.
Leo Ascendent
115,801
Leo Ascendent - Loves how my friends with a ps3 are laughing cuz of the price increase. They must not know about all the other services.
Achievement Completion Percentage: 84.12%Donated to TrueAchievements.com515 posts
Last post: 01 Sep at 19:34
Posted on 01 February 10 at 17:27, Edited on 01 February 10 at 17:30 by Leo Ascendent
This is why I prefer the days prior to Achievements. I didn't care if I found every single thing, but now, if it's an achievement, I will spend hours trying to do so.

Now, the only easy game I've really picked up JUST for GS was Avatar: TLA: TBE, other games, I kinda have because they looked fun and had easy achievements. I'm more than reluctant to get a game that has impossible achievements, even if it looks good. This is very sad, because I'm probably denying myself some really good games.

"Since it's release in 1997, i have probably played through Final Fantasy VII about 5 times, start to finish. Why? Because if you ask me, it is still the greatest game to have ever graced any console or PC, period."

I'll leave that alone, I have a great despise for FF7.
PsychicChicken - Obsessed\Addicted to Achievements
77,9646 posts
Last post: 01 Feb at 17:30
Posted on 01 February 10 at 17:30
I haven't played Avatar, but I feel the same way that you do. I haven't played Ninja Gaiden 2 because of the achievements. I don't want another sub 200/1000 game on my games history. Does this make me a bad gamer?
SIDS savvy
25,831
SIDS savvy - Peace.
25,831Achievement Completion Percentage: 53.16%761 posts
Last post: 24 Feb at 16:53
Posted on 01 February 10 at 17:32, Edited on 02 February 10 at 03:46 by SIDS savvy
Very well-written my friend, and you make a lot of good points. My favorite game of all time is still Ocarina of time, but since I've really started 360 gaming I haven't touched it or my N64 once. My gamerscore has been completely taking over my gaming experience.
That being said, it doesn't mean it's ruining it. All of the games I've played to an extent I've enjoyed, and I haven't ever picked up a game for the gamerscore. I like to think of it as a highlight of my gaming experience, something to make me improve as a gamer and encourages me to repeat games I love.
To expand on this, I found this link a while ago that I found really interesting on this topic.
http://www.pixelpoppers.com/2009/11/awesome-by-proxy-addicte...
"Still Alive"
Kuper05
52,706
Kuper05 - Go Griz!
52,706Achievement Completion Percentage: 64.45%122 posts
Last post: 25 Aug at 15:26
Posted on 01 February 10 at 17:32
I had this same thought a few months back. I was playing games only because of the achievements. After beating ODST I haven't touched my xbox since.

From that moment I've been playing all the non-xbox titles I never would touch because I wouldn't be getting achievements for them. Zelda Wii, FF12, Metal Gear Solid series, New Super Mario Bros Wii, LBP - All great games that dont matter to my gamerscore. I feel freed of that useless number now.

I use to think achievements were great but they have tainted the experience for me. A true gamer shouldn't care about the size of their score.
Go Griz! - University of Montana
Leo Ascendent
115,801
Leo Ascendent - Loves how my friends with a ps3 are laughing cuz of the price increase. They must not know about all the other services.
Achievement Completion Percentage: 84.12%Donated to TrueAchievements.com515 posts
Last post: 01 Sep at 19:34
Posted on 01 February 10 at 17:34
PsychicChicken said:I haven't played Avatar, but I feel the same way that you do. I haven't played Ninja Gaiden 2 because of the achievements. I don't want another sub 200/1000 game on my games history. Does this make me a bad gamer?
Not a bad gamer, but a gamer who likes completion. I hate seeing DoA 4, 160/1000 on my card, it's really annoying to me. Or games (like Condemned: CO) who have a weird ass GS (970), I look at that and go, "Did I miss an achievement?" Nope, just a odd amount (damn developers couldn't add 1 more or add 30 points here and there).
Sneaky Tr00per - jusr ordered the new 360 250gb edition with red dead redeption for £209.99
79,929242 comments534 posts
Last post: 29 Aug at 12:16
Posted on 01 February 10 at 17:40
ive said it before and i will say it again black was the best shooting game for ps2 and xbox there is no doubt about it in my mind. shame ms think more about stupid natal than what xbox 360 players actually want
ESS3NC3 0F 3V1L - Since starting my job I have lost 3% towards my completion percentage boo!
Donated to TrueAchievements.comTrueAchievement Site Rank: 3,099 out of 92,817131 posts
Last post: 28 Aug at 15:59
Posted on 01 February 10 at 17:41
I played avatar, I play easy games look at my list I have the ultimate Stealth/Strategy game on there Hannah Montana: The Movie. Why is it stealth, I hide the fact I played it. I play games for achievements but I also play games for fun. Most of the people that are on achievement tracking sites do care about achievements. Like I said MOST not ALL. If I can get the full 1000 on a game I do it. If I cannot I will get 63% that is it. I refuse to play sports games. I know those are a easy 1000 but I hate them. I have a few on my card but not as much as some people.

I dont like a lot of hack and slash games my best hack and slash is Onechanbara Bikini Samurai Squad. I liked the jiggle thats about it. But to your main point. IF and I mean IF they could go back through and redo old xbox games to give them achievements I would play black everyday to get those achievements I still play that game every so often. I think it would be cool but you would have to re-code all the games again. But hey they could always make improvements again.
Seven minutes, Seven minutes is all I can spare to play with you.
Posted on 01 February 10 at 17:41
Preach on brother! Gamerscore is a strange thing, in which you feel like you are really accomplishing something (like collecting all those damn diamonds in Far Cry 2) and being rewarded for your efforts. Raising your completion (I went up from 225 to 600 in Red Faction and it felt accomplishing) also feels like your making progress and gives you that sense of accomplishment.

But in reality, achievements don't get you didily-dick. Everyone with a high gamerscore will likely look back in a few years and say (myself included) "wow. Why did I waste my time on 'gamerscore?'"

Maybe it's ironic how I rarely play non-360 games (the PS3's been collecting dust for months and the wii hasn't been touched in a year... until I buy Rabbids go Home) but the "achievement factor" really makes you want to play these games. Think shit like Avatar, Vampire Rain, Turning Point, or Rock Revolution would have sold if they had no achievements involved? ...exactly. Even the PS3 trophy system doesn't feel the same.

That's just my little rant though
http://www.gaminglagoon.com/?ref=258513
stevezep19
72,158
stevezep19 - WHO DAT??
72,158Achievement Completion Percentage: 67.96%13 posts
Last post: 11 May at 23:02
Posted on 01 February 10 at 17:46
I have been playing Dragon Age and sometimes I get an achievement only to wonder what I got it for. It means that I really don't care and I'm actually enjoying the gameplay and the story. When it comes up, I stop my game, and read as to what I have just accomplished. The problem is when you aren't excited about a game and you tend to look at the achievement screen to "finish the game." There are games that are good that you know you will go back and play for all the achievements and rewards, and then there are games you rent to just whore away with. I think it goes both ways and yes if older games included achs, I would probably go back and play them just to find out what I would get and in order to relive an old classic.
Mike Langlois
112,490
Mike Langlois - I could play hour after hour of Monday Night Combat. Infact, i will till Reach.
Registered on 15 October 08 (Year 1 - beta)Achievement Completion Percentage: 81.54%1,182 posts
Last post: 31 Aug at 12:27
Posted on 01 February 10 at 17:47
Why cant my joy come from gaining achievements?

Why must it be, gaming for fun, or for the achievements, why not gaming for achievements because they are fun?
www.twitter.com/Mike_Langlois
Zonrith1
108,863
Zonrith1
108,86346 completed games35 posts
Last post: 20 Aug at 19:43
Posted on 01 February 10 at 17:47
I don't think much of my overall gamerscore, but I do like increasing my percentage within games. For me, 'chieves have served to extend life out of games and get me to do things I normally wouldn't. I'd never have played Call of Duty 2 on Veteran if the 'chieves hadn't been there, or spent weeks on RE5's co-op. I never would have tried Bad Company's multiplayer or heard the side-story in ODST's audio logs if not for the 'chieves to motivate me to pursue those things.

Sometimes the 'chieves are a curse. I've gone for some that ultimately were not enjoyable. Sometimes, the hatred for the 'chieve and the desire to conquer it is the real reward, the joy of victory (I'm talking to you, advanced levels of Marble Blast Ultra). Sometimes, I've found I've done something tedious and without the sense of accomplishment. Generally, I just try to identify what isn't worth my time (pigeons in GTAIV) or isn't hooking me in enough as a game (Ace Combat 6) and put those aside without going for all the 'chieves or finishing the game. Sure, it looks a little sad in my game list, but I shrug and move on to something else.

I do not deny I'm addicted to hearing the achievement unlocked sound, though. And the extra life 'chieves have breathed into many games for me has saved me quite a bit of cash, too. From the unique ideas on how to play a game (which often can be quite fun) to the little challenges my friends and I may make over certain 'chieves in certain games, overall, I enjoy gaming more now that 'chieves are in them. To me, they are just the evolution of leader boards and past "bragging rights" methods (I would flaunt my defeat of Ruby Weapon in FFVII, just as those who beat Emerald Weapon would flaunt that at me). I don't think things are much different, other than GS has sort of "codified" 'chieves. I say "sort of" because the standard varies so much (I have lots of games that were easy 'chieves and lots that aren't; hence the value of a site like TA).
AlreadyPicked - Going back to gaming slowly...
25,69032 posts
Last post: 14 Aug at 23:54
Posted on 01 February 10 at 18:06
I like the achievement incentive to complete something I wouldn't even thought to do in the first place because I don't have a lot of imagination. For me, they extend the fun factor. Also, I like a little challenge but GH3 killed my love for challenges. Now, if an achievement seems no fun to get, I skip it. I don't care about it.

Also, I only go back to original xbox games because they look like I will have fun playing it (I truly enjoyed Justice League Heroes). I would like to see achievements on them but the cost of coding it would bump the price to a level where it is not profitable.
Ruthless Remix - Anyone want to boost 3-fer (triple kill) on Monday Night Combat soon. I have 2 consoles so only need one guy! :)
106 completed gamesTrueAchievement Site Rank: 379 out of 92,817413 posts
Last post: 01 Sep at 13:11
Posted on 01 February 10 at 18:17
Blantantly just for achievements. I doubt i'd have an xbox if there were no achievements. I might keep my PS3 if there was no trophies but i'd buy about 3 games a year whereas i buy abut 5 games a week because of achievements. I currently own 175 retail games and 90 odd XBLA games.

Achievements was the greatest invention in gaming history as i reckon I have spent around £4,000 on gaming in the last 3-4 years. All because of achievements.

Here's a thought why dos no one play their Wii? Well mainly because there's no cheevo's but secondly because there shit!!! LMAO!
DamTheLad
90,736
DamTheLad
90,73636 completed games59 posts
Last post: 30 Aug at 21:29
Posted on 01 February 10 at 18:39
I like the achievements, it's giving us a challenge, a challenge that we didn't have though normally. Sometimes they are a pain in the @$$ but when we got them we're really happy. But, on the other side of the medal, we play some games like Terminator to just have an easy 1000 GS that we could have put on another better games. Maybe harder to get those achievements but the satisfaction when we'll get them will be ten time better. I completed Dragon Age because I'll loved it, not like Terminator because it was 1000 GS in 5 hours. I think we all need to see what games we really like and put time in these games and not in Yaris Games because I want those 200 GS !
t0ester 12
80,371
t0ester 12 - om nom nom nom
80,371TrueAchievement Site Rank: 11,123 out of 92,81710 posts
Last post: 07 Apr at 13:25
Posted on 01 February 10 at 18:40
like above `ruthless remix` states - its all about clever marketing and achievements become addictive and not the game
Shemp Howard
78,073
Shemp Howard - N1NJA and Durbin check out this post!
78,073Donated to TrueAchievements.com126 posts
Last post: Yesterday at 14:58
Posted on 01 February 10 at 18:41, Edited on 01 February 10 at 18:42 by Shemp Howard
Great Legend Shemp Howard here! To me back in the day I would game so that I can game! I have some awesome titles on the original Xbox. Most of the ones I love aren't BC which sucks! Mainly the Timesplitter games and The Warriors! Anyways I play games for achievements and gamerscore. I am not going to lie about that. I don't whore for achievements though. Meaning games I like and buy are for my own pleasure. When I buy those games I am trying to get as much gamerscore out of it as possible. I know I won't be able to 100% Guitar Hero games, but hey I am cool with that. Those are more like party games to me. You know have some friends over and play. Other games though like adventure games I try to get all gamerscore I can. Now as you say whoring around. NO! I am not going to buy/rent easy ass games to put on my gamercard. I am not that desperate. But I do believe that some folks just play games for achievements only.
The Great Legend Shemp Howard
HWNDarkside
224,913
HWNDarkside - hmmm....what next...???
224,913Achievement Completion Percentage: 94.98%84 posts
Last post: 31 Aug at 18:51
Posted on 01 February 10 at 18:42
It's a double-edged sword IMO.

I remember gaming of old with much fondness. When you could play a couple of levels, decide a game was crap, and bin it for something better. Chances are I wouldn't have bought it or rented it in the first place!

Now my gamerscore eats away at me. Every game on my list with below 100% completion is a thorn in my side. I've played sub-par games to completion just to see the magic "1000" on my gamercard. I've played a lot of crap I wouldn't have touched with yours back in the day.

Here's the quandary though - I play games for points but often end up playing games I wouldn't usually play and finding I quiet enjoy them! Had it not been for whoring I would never have played Wall-E, Viking, Bionic Commando, and numerous others. In fact I have to say I've enjoyed playing most of the games on my card!
www.hardcorewillneverdie.com
Shemp Howard
78,073
Shemp Howard - N1NJA and Durbin check out this post!
78,073Donated to TrueAchievements.com126 posts
Last post: Yesterday at 14:58
Posted on 01 February 10 at 18:44, Edited on 01 February 10 at 18:44 by Shemp Howard
Darkside that is good for you actually! I mean say you whore around sure, but you have fun playing games. That is what it is all about!
The Great Legend Shemp Howard
 
 
 
 
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