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Negative voting on Solutions....

AuthorMessage
Rashaka1
499,454
Rashaka1
Posted on 14 April 18 at 18:51
It seems that this is a pretty large issue on this site as I read though different posts around the area. From my personal perspective I've literally had 6 negative votes on a solution that someone else writes almost an identical post and then gets tons of up votes. Sometimes I actually think there are groups of people out there that just want their name to be shown in the guide list and they get their friends to down vote all the guides and up vote theirs.

Here are some solutions to this issue which would also cause a lot less "support tickets" for the investigation team at TA and would actually make me want to post solutions on this site again because currently I do not do them any longer.

These ideas can be used together as well.

Number One

Just remove down votes all together. They don't do anything other than cause drama and grief for no reason. If solution's ranks are determined by only positive votes you won't see a huge difference in the order of solutions, but people won't be able to troll you either because they don't like you and just want your solution to fail or because they want theirs to succeed. Obviously you knew this was a motive or you wouldn't have made it to where people who make a solution on an achievement can't vote on other solutions for the same achievement. Lack of foresight and pettiness of people doomed this system.

Number two.

Make it so that people can only vote on ONE solution for an achievement. If you want to change your vote then you can, but you can't vote on 4 out of the 5 solutions on the same achievement just to troll one person.

Number three.

Make it so that the solution owner has moderation rights to the comments in their solution. I seriously have a solution that has 50ish up votes and there are two or three people who wanted to get in it and just trash talk the guide. Obviously someone somewhere found it helpful or I wouldn't have that many up votes.

Conclusion.

I think some or all of these changes would help reduce issues with people claiming they are being trolled in the solution system. I also think they would help to promote more people getting into writing solutions. I don't have a problem with someone else's guide being better than mine. Honestly if there were no negative solutions you could remove the restriction of people voting on opposing solutions. I don't mind commenting or up voting a solution that is better than mine. I frequently remove my solutions when I find one that someone has done a way better job on.

I also think this would be better for the overall community. More people writing solutions means more people finding the solution that helped them the most which makes this site more useful and would attract more players.
Beanpotter
874,671
Beanpotter
Posted on 14 April 18 at 19:36
We do remove a few troll voters each year but the problem is so small that we're happy with the system as it is and have been for many years now. There are many threads about this which I'm sure you can find if you wish. Good solutions are good no matter what a troll says. I have over 250 solutions and only ever remove them if they get more neg than pos and even then, only after I've looked at it again and thought 'yeah, that;s not great.' I love the fact that they have loads of pos votes and the negs mean nothing to me. They do serve a purpose however; again, this has been discussed numerous times, as you'll see or may already know.
Two can play this game.
JumboWario
560,415
JumboWario
Posted on 14 April 18 at 19:39
I use negative votes all the time when people post a “solution” that is essentially the achievement description in another wording. It’s has a use. No need to remove them.
Game On.
Beanpotter
874,671
Beanpotter
Posted on 14 April 18 at 19:41
Please report anything you don't think should be there and we'll usually get rid. Thanks.
Two can play this game.
Living Legends
Posted on 14 April 18 at 19:43
No on all three. A negative vote is like negative or neutral feedback. Can't control the way others act. The system is pretty solid and we need downvotes. Also, maybe your solution becomes outdated, a better one is around or it just was not good enough. It's constructive criticism but people use it to express other stuff.

I would like to vote on two solutions so the good one that is now relevant can overtake the outdated one
Beanpotter
874,671
Beanpotter
Posted on 14 April 18 at 19:49
I'll quite happily vote positively multiple solutions for the same achievement and only neg on ones that don't work or are illegible.
Two can play this game.
Spilner
696,209
Spilner
Posted on 14 April 18 at 23:12
It seems that this is a pretty large issue on this site...
Every time one person has a problem with it and says this based on their experience... its just not.
Pom poms at the ready, cheerleaders!
Wyyvern
436,873
Wyyvern
Posted on 14 April 18 at 23:48
This topic comes around once or twice a year.

Short answer is don't worry about negatives as long as you have a lot more positives. Some people downvote for anything, including if the achievement glitched on them specifically. Of course that isn't the fault of the solution or the person who wrote it...that's just how it is. Luckily those people are few and far between.

I don't blame you though, back when I was new on the site in 2013 I wrote a solution for an achievement in NFS Rivals, and brought up a fuss in the comments when it got a single negative vote after around 20 positive votes...yep. You manage to ignore them after a while.

On the topic of solution comments, if they get particularly harassing or trolly then let a mod know. If it's just general trash talk though, just let them show off how much of a numpty they are.
Here be dragons.
WEBHEAD 7
400,768
WEBHEAD 7
Posted on 15 April 18 at 16:28
If the response is always "don't worry about them" or "ignore them", all the more reason they shouldn't be there to begin with.

JumboWario said:
I use negative votes all the time when people post a “solution” that is essentially the achievement description in another wording. It’s has a use. No need to remove them.
Beanpotter said:
I'll quite happily vote positively multiple solutions for the same achievement and only neg on ones that don't work or are illegible.
If they just repeat the description, or don't work.. then they should be reported and removed. Still no valid reasons in sight for downvotes to exist. If anything, this indicates that the option to downvote is actually keeping bad content on site. Very odd move.
Spilner
696,209
Spilner
Posted on 15 April 18 at 16:42
Gotta have negativity to balance out the positivity. Its like how even the losers in school get medals for taking part cause they cant upset the snowflakes.
Pom poms at the ready, cheerleaders!
JumboWario
560,415
JumboWario
Posted on 15 April 18 at 16:55
WEBHEAD 7 said:
If the response is always "don't worry about them" or "ignore them", all the more reason they shouldn't be there to begin with.

JumboWario said:
I use negative votes all the time when people post a “solution” that is essentially the achievement description in another wording. It’s has a use. No need to remove them.
Beanpotter said:
I'll quite happily vote positively multiple solutions for the same achievement and only neg on ones that don't work or are illegible.
If they just repeat the description, or don't work.. then they should be reported and removed. Still no valid reasons in sight for downvotes to exist. If anything, this indicates that the option to downvote is actually keeping bad content on site. Very odd move.
Without a negative a positive means nothing. If negatives didn’t exist and I had a solution with 11 positive and you had one with 45, is it because people didn’t vote either way on mine or because it isn’t a good solution? What if mine was posted yesterday and yours was posted 3 years ago? I usually look at the ratio of pos/neg. if something had the same amount of or more downvotes, I pass over it.
Game On.
Spilner
696,209
Spilner
Posted on 15 April 18 at 16:57
At the end of the day all of this has been discussed to death previously, its kind of a tradition.
Pom poms at the ready, cheerleaders!
Living Legends
Posted on 15 April 18 at 17:08, Edited on 15 April 18 at 17:10 by Living Legends
WEBHEAD 7 said:
If the response is always "don't worry about them" or "ignore them", all the more reason they shouldn't be there to begin with.

If they just repeat the description, or don't work.. then they should be reported and removed. Still no valid reasons in sight for downvotes to exist. If anything, this indicates that the option to downvote is actually keeping bad content on site. Very odd move.
so your opinion is the site keeps bad content due to a solution? Down voting has a purpose if used right, create a discussion to change or alert the user there is a problem with the solution.

An example is Crysis 2, there was a solution to boost, got patched. A new one was made for the new patch that worked. The old solution stayed up for reference. A little while later, the game received another patched that made the old solution relevant again. If the site had removed the solution the original user posted with his positive and negative and then either the old solution writer has to post it again which most have moved on either in gaming or life or have a different user then create the solution that could not be as good or descriptive. The issue with making the new solution is all the old data, comments and editing is gone and its from scratch all to suit your need of removing negative voting for a "bad" solution
Throni360
1,006,208
Throni360
Posted on 15 April 18 at 22:18
WEBHEAD 7 said:
If they just repeat the description, or don't work.. then they should be reported and removed. Still no valid reasons in sight for downvotes to exist. If anything, this indicates that the option to downvote is actually keeping bad content on site. Very odd move.
There are plenty of solutions that work but there are better solutions out there. Better formatted, better worded, better technique, more effort put in it, etc. There are many good reasons to downvote a solution. And even more to keep the content on the site.

I rarely downvote solutions. And I report stolen ones or those that break the rules of the site. Downvotes are good for low effort solutions that are bad but don't break the rules.
Lockie
206,889
Lockie
Posted on 16 April 18 at 02:39, Edited on 16 April 18 at 02:40 by Lockie
As I've said in previous posts on this topic, down votes should require a comment.

If a solution is so bad that you feel obligated to down vote it, then you should provide some advice on how to fix it. I've used other websites with this system and it eliminated the down vote spamming completely, because people are held accountable for their down votes.
Posting from sunny Australia.
KBop a doo
312,181
KBop a doo
Posted on 16 April 18 at 02:47, Edited on 16 April 18 at 02:49 by KBop a doo
Lockie said:
As I've said in previous posts on this topic, down votes should require a comment.

If a solution is so bad that you feel obligated to down vote it, then you should provide some advice on how to fix it. I've used other websites with this system and it eliminated the down vote spamming completely, because people are held accountable for their down votes.
This has been discussed to death also, and I'm pretty sure the prevailing opinion is:

1. People would just put a - or something and not write out a detailed response.
2. If people were forced to a put a detailed response with their name on it, they would stop downvoting solutions because they're too lazy to write out a response or don't want to look bad, which is not desirable either. There are plenty of people using the downvote button absolutely responsibly who don't want their name attached to things or to be writing a novel every time they downvote a bad solution. The last thing TA wants to do is discourage anyone from voting. It may discourage spam down voters, sure, but it's going to discourage real voters too.
WEBHEAD 7
400,768
WEBHEAD 7
Posted on 16 April 18 at 06:13
I've never been behind the mandatory comments suggestion. The request for feedback we have currently is fine. Still think downvotes are useless. Out of date/No longer valid until patched solutions shouldn't be there. Archive them somehow if we want them around for the future fix that may never come. Besides, what good is a solution that becomes valid again after a patch when it spent god knows how long accumulating downvotes from you guys? Now it's just a misleading, untrustworthy solution thanks to all the people who are never, ever going to return and change their vote. I'm not referring to you guys being misled. You live on this site like I do. But think of the children!

3 solutions, one with 100 upvotes, one with 50 upvotes and one with 2 upvotes says it all
TheMaize
1,020,589
TheMaize
Posted on 16 April 18 at 08:19
the solution is simple. write solutions that dont warrant downvotes. If you have 100 upvotes and 20 downvotes, its not because of trolls. its because some people find your solution lacking.
Throni360
1,006,208
Throni360
Posted on 16 April 18 at 09:28
TheMaize said:
the solution is simple. write solutions that dont warrant downvotes. If you have 100 upvotes and 20 downvotes, its not because of trolls. its because some people find your solution lacking.
You will always get downvotes. Some for a reason, some random or because a friend wrote a solution.

One of my solutions has 4 up and 3 downvotes. Why? No idea.
Mantis Burn RacingJourneymanThe Journeyman achievement in Mantis Burn Racing worth 189 pointsReach XP level 50

But I helped at least 4 people and that counts. Don't write solutions if you can't handle downvotes. They don't affect anything and don't matter.
TheMaize
1,020,589
TheMaize
Posted on 16 April 18 at 09:40
Throni360 said:
TheMaize said:
the solution is simple. write solutions that dont warrant downvotes. If you have 100 upvotes and 20 downvotes, its not because of trolls. its because some people find your solution lacking.
You will always get downvotes. Some for a reason, some random or because a friend wrote a solution.

One of my solutions has 4 up and 3 downvotes. Why? No idea.
Mantis Burn RacingJourneymanThe Journeyman achievement in Mantis Burn Racing worth 189 pointsReach XP level 50

But I helped at least 4 people and that counts. Don't write solutions if you can't handle downvotes. They don't affect anything and don't matter.
i know you will always get downvotes...no matter how perfect a solution is. some people wont be able to follow directions, or have the skillevel to do it etc etc...im just saying that its usualy a very small amount...If you GENERALLY have a large percentage of downvotes. "trolls" are not the reason.

and i totally agree with you...if a downvote or 2 ruins your day, you better write a comment to an existing solution, than make your own.

A lot of people seem to be convinced that if a solution works, any downvote is a trollvote...thats not exactly true..
As an example of something i recently downvoted....The actual way to earn the achievement, was to go to the menu, and click to watch the credits...
And the solution was a youtubelink, and the text "achievement starts at 48.20"
While it was propably a working solution. It was overly complicated, instead of just writing what to do in 10 words
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