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Xbox Hall of Fame: how mayonnaise made me lose my appetite for achievements

  • flashisdoomflashisdoom320,054
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 05:56, Edited on 06 October 20 at 05:57 by flashisdoom
    I'm surprised by a lot of the comments on here. It really doesn't matter how you game. Going for high gamerscore, going for TA ratio, completion %, difficulty, a blend of easy & difficult, etc. It doesn't matter what you do as long as you're having fun doing it. If the most fun you have is playing easy 0-1 hour completions then that's awesome. On the contrary if you only have fun playing hard/long games that really test your skill/patience then god bless.

    Doesn't matter as long as you're having fun :)
  • psportalpsportal178,026
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 07:29
    Good thing I didn't go for the Hall of Fame. I already figured out that people with more time and money would beat me in this regard.

    I'd rathe go for thematic winning.
    M.A.K.
  • gothmogesgothmoges487,153
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 07:46, Edited on 06 October 20 at 07:47 by gothmoges
    I get that very same feeling every now and then with grindy boring achievements, or those with ridiculous amount of difficulty and/or luck involved. I'm still in the process of trying to get used to it, and occasionally get hooked, but I've kinda made peace with myself and I care less about completion.If nothing else, just because I have so many great games in the backlog that is embarrassing that I've been chasing pidgeons with a map before even experiencing them.

    As for the contest, I knew it would be kinda impossible for me to opt to anything, but seeing the leaderboard set up by TA was demolishing. As a regular user, these contests are totally and utterly useless.

    PS Wandersong is nice little game, well worth a full play.
  • Nod NolanNod Nolan662,036
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 07:48
    There was a website created that thought as great as Achievements are, the way they are awarded isn't always fair. for example - the 5 points for pressing the Start button in The Simpsons Game are worth exactly the same as the 5 points for completing 10 side missions in Just Cause.

    The came up with a plan that decided that an achievement's difficulty can be accurately approximated by using a formula based on how many people have that achievement compared to how many people own the game.

    Now in 2020, Ratalaika and other copycat companies are effectively bringing out points for pounds.

    The TA score and Ratio are the best way to ascertain what is an achievement and what is numb score.
  • EarthboundXEarthboundX1,510,668
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 09:11, Edited on 06 October 20 at 09:12 by EarthboundX
    Nod Nolan said:
    There was a website created that thought as great as Achievements are, the way they are awarded isn't always fair. for example - the 5 points for pressing the Start button in The Simpsons Game are worth exactly the same as the 5 points for completing 10 side missions in Just Cause.

    The came up with a plan that decided that an achievement's difficulty can be accurately approximated by using a formula based on how many people have that achievement compared to how many people own the game.

    Now in 2020, Ratalaika and other copycat companies are effectively bringing out points for pounds.

    The TA score and Ratio are the best way to ascertain what is an achievement and what is numb score.
    Maybe in the past that was true, but it's not anymore.

    Westerado: Double Barreled is one of my highest TA score/ratio games, yet it is incredibly easy to complete, maybe even more so then some of these sub 1 hour games listed here. Its TA score and ratio have been massively bloated because of Gamepass. Pretty much making the original reason for TA score pointless.

    But then actually challenging games like the Dark Souls series are barely x2 ratio, when they are actually much harder to complete. I think the TA score and ratio system has been at least somewhat broken ever since the Xbox One(Or at least Gamepass)came out. A game having a really high ratio and score no longer means it's a hard or tough completion. It just means more people have played it, and jacked the scores up.
  • kipfizhkipfizh366,106
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 10:27
    Really like this piece, mainly because of the comic writing style - great work, and hope we get to read more.

    I do think quick completions have their place - I tend to play one game at a time, but can feel a bit burnt out by the end. At that point, I generally don't feel like jumping immediately into another big game, so a quick completion is perfect at that point.

    Of course, TA statistics have something to do with that - I'm still trying to fix my 2015 bean dive so if all my dived games are big, I'll bridge the gap by playing something I won't end up with 2/12 for. And sometimes, especially with Game Pass, they turn out to be a lot of fun, albeit briefly.

    The pain with a HoF competition is that you have to play a long stream of such games, back to back. That's where I imagine it really gets painful!
  • Stevo6483Stevo6483254,195
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 10:56
    Some of these "games" are woeful and MS should be ashamed to have them on their console.

    Regarding the competition, it really does not seem worth the time, money or effort, especially if you end up having to pay more for these games than what the console is worth. There's gonna be some seriously annoyed people who miss out on the top spot.
    Stoke me a clipper, I'll be back for Christmas... Whatever!
  • LordSmorcLordSmorc443,092
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 11:35
    monkeybiscitz said:
    Maybe I am in the minority here, but I do not understand why people would pay money for a quick completion, like all the Ratailka games, for example. I get that we are all achievement hunters here but, first and foremost, I am a gamer that enjoys good video games. A game that costs $5 to complete in 20 minutes and never touch again seems weird. That is just my opinion.
    I like to think of these games as being the equivalent of a pint, you only enjoy a pint while you're drinking it and it costs about the same as a lot of these cheaper, easy completions. If you were to go out on a Friday night to a pub/club you'd easily spend £20+ on a few drinks and possible entry fees. The money that you've saved from not going out can be spent on whatever else, like buying a few of these games in the weekly sales. I think any game that's £3-4 or less is definitely worth considering if it's a quick completion. The ones that are more expensive not so much.
  • NoApologies1988NoApologies19881,362,748
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 11:58
    I see you've never played Hyper Universe.
    Join me in annoying the hell out of devs and publishers as we try to get our broken games fixed.
  • Posted on 06 October 20 at 12:11
    Too much of anything is bad in time. I try to balance my gaming out (as much as I can). I'll typically knock out a bunch of 0-2 hour games in the beginning of the month and then spend the remaining 3 weeks playing something slower and more enjoyable. It definitely helps...

    I can't imagine grinding day after day. This will be my first year scoring 100,000+ in a calendar year and I feel burned out from too many quick and easy, but not very enjoyable, games. Those who do it every year are on another level.
  • gothmogesgothmoges487,153
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 12:26
    EarthboundX said:
    Nod Nolan said:
    There was a website created that thought as great as Achievements are, the way they are awarded isn't always fair. for example - the 5 points for pressing the Start button in The Simpsons Game are worth exactly the same as the 5 points for completing 10 side missions in Just Cause.

    The came up with a plan that decided that an achievement's difficulty can be accurately approximated by using a formula based on how many people have that achievement compared to how many people own the game.

    Now in 2020, Ratalaika and other copycat companies are effectively bringing out points for pounds.

    The TA score and Ratio are the best way to ascertain what is an achievement and what is numb score.
    Maybe in the past that was true, but it's not anymore.

    Westerado: Double Barreled is one of my highest TA score/ratio games, yet it is incredibly easy to complete, maybe even more so then some of these sub 1 hour games listed here. Its TA score and ratio have been massively bloated because of Gamepass. Pretty much making the original reason for TA score pointless.

    But then actually challenging games like the Dark Souls series are barely x2 ratio, when they are actually much harder to complete. I think the TA score and ratio system has been at least somewhat broken ever since the Xbox One(Or at least Gamepass)came out. A game having a really high ratio and score no longer means it's a hard or tough completion. It just means more people have played it, and jacked the scores up.
    GP and GWG might have built on it, but the 'problem' was already there. TA ratio does not necessarily account for difficulty. An achievement might be super easy but be so ilogical that not many players get it (eg: a recent one I remember on Prey was getting killed by the helicopter on the prologue, and that has a 2+ ratio).

    A high ratio can imply difficulty, but also weird requirements or just pure boredomness and high dropout ratio.
    Westerado is probably the later. I tried it for like 5 minutes, popped an achievement and never played it again because it looked awful to me. I can relate if a lot of people felt the same. It's true that if I would've paid for it I probably would've felt more compelled to play it., so there is some truth into what you say.

    The 'rareness' flag in Xbox platform, in fact, is a clear indicator that game dropout is a common thing nowadays. I've seen many story related achievements classified as rare, not because of difficulty curve jumps, but most likely just because people didn't bother to finish the game. But I bet that has been like that for a long time, we just didn't realize it.
  • LeXXuzLeXXuz794,763
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 12:27, Edited on 06 October 20 at 12:27 by LeXXuz
    ...That was until I had to tap a jar of mayonnaise 10,000 times and laughpromptly lost the will to live...
    ...I vaguely remember licking the track, or some part of the set (I was left unsupervised a lot throughout my childhood)...
    Thanks. That really made my day. laughlaugh
  • psybOltOnpsybOltOn271,013
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 14:44
    My best day over 10 years was 1010 GS. I do 10000 between 6 and 12 months average, so no chance for me. I'm happy though as I enjoy all the games I play.
  • LooneyJetmanLooneyJetman374,478
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 15:13
    I've been keeping an achievement streak alive with Ratalaika/Eastasiasoft and other 'easy' games. I don't have a vast amount of time so I generally buy these games just so I can have an easy achievement every day. Oddly enough, the Mr Massagy/Mayo game I found quite entertaining (and bizarre). It's much easier if you don't do the 10,000 clicks in one sitting.

    So now I'm going through some of those games I haven't played yet in order to get the 10,000 gamerscore. I managed around 5,800 points on Sunday just clearing up some of the games I had started but not finished previously and then going through a few others. The only game I can honestly say I enjoyed was Tamiku. It isn't a great game by any means, but it did actually feel like an 80's arcade game.

    Castle of No Escape quite literally took about five minutes to complete. It must rival Avatar for the fastest completion out there.
  • EarthboundXEarthboundX1,510,668
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 15:23
    gothmoges said:
    EarthboundX said:
    Nod Nolan said:
    There was a website created that thought as great as Achievements are, the way they are awarded isn't always fair. for example - the 5 points for pressing the Start button in The Simpsons Game are worth exactly the same as the 5 points for completing 10 side missions in Just Cause.

    The came up with a plan that decided that an achievement's difficulty can be accurately approximated by using a formula based on how many people have that achievement compared to how many people own the game.

    Now in 2020, Ratalaika and other copycat companies are effectively bringing out points for pounds.

    The TA score and Ratio are the best way to ascertain what is an achievement and what is numb score.
    Maybe in the past that was true, but it's not anymore.

    Westerado: Double Barreled is one of my highest TA score/ratio games, yet it is incredibly easy to complete, maybe even more so then some of these sub 1 hour games listed here. Its TA score and ratio have been massively bloated because of Gamepass. Pretty much making the original reason for TA score pointless.

    But then actually challenging games like the Dark Souls series are barely x2 ratio, when they are actually much harder to complete. I think the TA score and ratio system has been at least somewhat broken ever since the Xbox One(Or at least Gamepass)came out. A game having a really high ratio and score no longer means it's a hard or tough completion. It just means more people have played it, and jacked the scores up.
    GP and GWG might have built on it, but the 'problem' was already there. TA ratio does not necessarily account for difficulty. An achievement might be super easy but be so ilogical that not many players get it (eg: a recent one I remember on Prey was getting killed by the helicopter on the prologue, and that has a 2+ ratio).

    A high ratio can imply difficulty, but also weird requirements or just pure boredomness and high dropout ratio.
    Westerado is probably the later. I tried it for like 5 minutes, popped an achievement and never played it again because it looked awful to me. I can relate if a lot of people felt the same. It's true that if I would've paid for it I probably would've felt more compelled to play it., so there is some truth into what you say.

    The 'rareness' flag in Xbox platform, in fact, is a clear indicator that game dropout is a common thing nowadays. I've seen many story related achievements classified as rare, not because of difficulty curve jumps, but most likely just because people didn't bother to finish the game. But I bet that has been like that for a long time, we just didn't realize it.
    Yeah, what was it? Only about 10% of all gamers actually finish games. That will never stop blowing my mind. Makes me wonder if that shows the vast, vast majority of gamers are actually more causal gamers.
  • Posted on 06 October 20 at 15:26
    so

    you do know you have not even begun your journey because you are not playing games on a computer while doing everything you detailed
  • Posted on 06 October 20 at 15:38
    I cannot bring myself to spend money on a bunch of crappers glad I never did the Tracks + Surviving Mars games on GP I can still do the insanely boring Telltale games and the Batman telltale that was GWG months ago, but dang it why not include 360 games then I can finally bum rush my 8-10hr backlog on there but alas shitty X1 games it is
    Weirdflex: #1 0'13"25 Boulder Harbour A track in Truck Racer
  • yossarianoyossariano307,944
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 16:09
    Making gamerscore a target removes all fun and I can only imagine MS are simply trying to promote gamepass. That's how it seems, and how is anyone with a balanced life supposed or would want to compete with the huge amount now of semi-pro gamers.

    Now setting certain challenges in games, like the Forza lap time is pretty neat but even that favours those with bespoke hardware (wheels etc).

    I am confident the community on here could come up with some really good challenge ideas based on skill and is hardware agnostic.
    Yossariano
  • GortusGortus582,139
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 16:15
    I agree with those who mentioned that you're missing out on a lot of joy by skipping through Wandersong.
  • Dragonborn GearDragonborn Gear1,178,364
    Posted on 06 October 20 at 17:02, Edited on 06 October 20 at 17:05 by Dragonborn Gear
    This article reasonably accurately reflects my opinion toward achievements nowadays. In late 2019 I started feeling burnt out after 5 years of grinding out easy games (while also throwing in the normal AAA and other actually challenging games here and there). Then came Gears 5. It was by playing this game that I realized that my pure desire to get achievements for the sake of them being there to 100% completion was kind of a waste of time. (thank you games I started as a child and didn't get achievements for being there for me to remind me I can't get 100% completion anyways). I am including getting through cheap and easy games for gamerscore, too, within that commentary. Total gamerscore never REALLY mattered to me. I started buying every game I could when it went on sale below $10 when it was a ratio that looked reasonable with a time commitment less than 10 hours. I naively thought that I would eventually be able to play every game I might want to and I didn't want to miss out on any, so I always bought some games on sales days when there was something that fit my criteria. I am so glad that I no longer do this. I will never again buy a game for an extra completion as it is merely a losing battle that is most of the time not even that fun.

    I have since moved on from the 100K gamerscore per year aspiration and moved back to playing games more or less for fun. Yes, I still plan on 100% completing the games I start (assuming they're fun and reasonable enough to do so; Gears 5 is not, and Gears of War 4 wasn't really either, but I did that one). Thank you, Gears 5, for changing my life for the better; I am finally going out of my normal comfort zone and enjoying other things in life like Nintendo games :)
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