Posted on 15 August 21 at 11:02HolyHalfDead said:KeebyMK said:HolyHalfDead said:KeebyMK said:I have played absolutely zero of these games, although I have done various grinds before. Mainly in the older Forza games. Stuff like 1m online credits in FM2 took approximately 20 hours with two controllers and two consoles, and Solid Gold from FM3 took approximately 120 hours of *only* driving time. That's excluding menus, car upgrading, car buying, etc. And I didn't do any of the whole "hire an AI driver" stuff. (I also did various grinds for completing all events in FM2, 4, Horizon, Horizon 2 and Horizon 3, but those are the two that stick out the most to me).None of the Forza games were grinds. Completing events is the what the games are all about. Now if there was an achievement for completing each event twice, then just maybe you could call it a grind.Completing all the events *is* a grind though. Regardless of whether or not it's the point, 5 days of driving for one achievement is a pretty big grind. It's not as much of a grind as the achievements listed in the article, but it's still a grind.In which case any game with a 80+ hours completion is a grind. I’m playing Skyrim right now, and I can play for days without unlocking an achievement - it is not a Telltale game with regular unlocks every hour. But in my opinion there is a massive difference between completing “fetch” quests or winning races in different cars, compared to repeating the same action 100,000 times.If FH4 had an achievement for getting to level 99 car collector, then that would be a grind. I’be been playing since day 1 and still haven’t reached 99. Getting to level 10 in painter, tuner, designer and blue-printer would be massive grinds - most people probably haven’t even hit level 5 in each of them (to unlock the Ford Capri FE).In Skyrim if there was an achievement to Legendary (prestige) all skills 10 times that would be a grind.When I buy a game I want one that will occupy and entertain me for weeks, not to get 1000G in 1-2 hours. In the 1980-90’s I would (re)play the same game for years.It’s getting to a point where I think one of the best things that could happen for gaming right now is that whenever you load a game for the first time a single achievement worth 1000G unlocks. Then people can go back to enjoying games like they used to before achievements, and the 1000G in 10 minute games will have to compete with other games on merit, lol. It will also put an end to achievements that become discontinued 10 years after the game was released.You're assuming achievements can only be grinds if they're the most extreme of the extreme. Even the article disagrees with this notion, as the Rock Band achievement listed is only 6 or so hours of playtime. However, it's still listed, not because it is a grind of an achievement that takes a stupidly long time, but because it's a physical grind that will tire you out after a while. Everyone has a different threshold that constitutes a "grind" to them. 120 hours on one achievement is a grind to me. Hell, I'd argue even half of that on a singular achievement is that to me (this is discounting if I get other achievements during). Now, I know that there are many other achievements I would have gotten on the way to the Solid Gold achievement in FM3. However, when I started the grind last year, this was on a whole new file, since I had played it before when I was younger, and had gotten the majority of other achievements in the game, and then lost that file at some point due to the large amount of console changes since I last played. So yes, by my criteria, it may not constitute a grind since any newcomer to that achievement would get a boatload of achievements while working towards it (not that I'd recommend starting any of the older Forza games for achievements since the vast majority of them have discontinued achievements/DLC). But in my specific circumstance, it was basically the 120 hours of driving for that one achievement. We may agree to disagree on this specific situation, but I don't think we can disagree on (most of) the article-listed achievements being grinds.