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Fez Patch Back Online With No Save Fix Coming

  • Posted on 21 July 12 at 02:34Permalink
    Someone please clarify this error for me, because to me it sounds like less than 1% of people will simply have to start over.
    This is not a broken product, this is a minor inconvenience.
    Boo-freaking-hoo.
  • Posted on 21 July 12 at 02:36, Edited on 21 July 12 at 02:39 by DL CyberSkullPermalink
    Comparing game developers to musicians makes sense. The publishers are screwing the artists. Again.

    I'm not surprised Microsoft hasn't adopted a sliding scale for re-certification. What is surprising is that MS is charging for re-certification for a Microsoft published title! I mean, they are already collecting most of the money from the digital sales, so what more do they want? (Oh yeah, the rest of the game sales!)

    If Polytron were a mid size developer, I would be joining the calls for their blood.
    Sincerely, Your Dread Lord CyberSkull
  • BoomeBoome310,215
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 03:31, Edited on 21 July 12 at 03:35 by BoomePermalink
    Obsidian Rocker said:
    Man up, Fish, If you release a faulty product, it's your responsibility to fix it. If I owned a restaurant and I sent out a steak that wasn't done right, and then told the customer to make do with what I gave him when he complains it's not right, that's wrong.

    "Thats not dur same"

    Shut the fuck up, yes it is. It's the same principle. You fuck something up, you fix it. At the same time, that's what those 1% of people get for supporting someone like Fish. Sorry, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. What did you expect from a guy who calls you the worst kind of people?
    No, it's not the same thing. A steak is a physical thing that just needs to be cooked and can be done correctly without breaking a sweat. A game is a lot of lines of code on a screen where a bug could be as simple as a - instead someone put a + accidentally. It's not that simple to catch when your staring at code all day. You can easily tell when a steak isn't cooked right just by looking at it. It also doesn't cost that much to either re-cook the steak or a new one.

    A lot of you seem to think by playing their game before they release it would make games bug free. That's not the case, not everyone experiences bugs. You can play test a game for 2 years and still miss bugs. And if you want games to be like that, get ready to pay 2 to 3 times the price as games are now.
    Trials Evolution custom track builder. Search "B00ME"(spelt with 2 zeros) in Track Central.
  • Santar0sSantar0s286,193
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 03:37Permalink
    So this guy wants to make money so he bitches about someone else making money in the process. "For you to do nothing and get something I have to do something and get nothing" MS isnt in the business of giving things away. I would imagine this is all in a contract somewhere.
  • LJParnellLJParnell750,756
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 04:11Permalink
    I am not sure I understand this process and I don't understand why Microsoft keeps it under wraps. They would be better off explaining instead of hiding it from everyone. I don't really know what the certification process is. Granted I would want to review the stuff before it screwed up everyone's Xbox, etc. But remember when Fallout New Vegas came out. How did that make it past the MS Certification process? That thing was super buggy. So what exactly is MS certifying and why does it take so long? Maybe it takes so long because the queue is large.

    I wish someone would just provide the details so we can all understand it better and not have to 'guess.'
  • RadiantViperRadiantViper785,253
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 04:48Permalink
    LJParnell said:
    I am not sure I understand this process and I don't understand why Microsoft keeps it under wraps. They would be better off explaining instead of hiding it from everyone. I don't really know what the certification process is. Granted I would want to review the stuff before it screwed up everyone's Xbox, etc. But remember when Fallout New Vegas came out. How did that make it past the MS Certification process? That thing was super buggy. So what exactly is MS certifying and why does it take so long? Maybe it takes so long because the queue is large.

    I wish someone would just provide the details so we can all understand it better and not have to 'guess.'
    The "certification" in this thread refers to patch certification. If MS tried to do certification for all of Fallout: New Vegas, they would have to add a few more zeroes after that $40,000 figure.
  • Posted on 21 July 12 at 05:06, Edited on 21 July 12 at 05:12 by Obsidian RockerPermalink
    B00ME said:
    Obsidian Rocker said:
    Man up, Fish, If you release a faulty product, it's your responsibility to fix it. If I owned a restaurant and I sent out a steak that wasn't done right, and then told the customer to make do with what I gave him when he complains it's not right, that's wrong.

    "Thats not dur same"

    Shut the fuck up, yes it is. It's the same principle. You fuck something up, you fix it. At the same time, that's what those 1% of people get for supporting someone like Fish. Sorry, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. What did you expect from a guy who calls you the worst kind of people?
    No, it's not the same thing. A steak is a physical thing that just needs to be cooked and can be done correctly without breaking a sweat. A game is a lot of lines of code on a screen where a bug could be as simple as a - instead someone put a + accidentally. It's not that simple to catch when your staring at code all day. You can easily tell when a steak isn't cooked right just by looking at it. It also doesn't cost that much to either re-cook the steak or a new one.

    A lot of you seem to think by playing their game before they release it would make games bug free. That's not the case, not everyone experiences bugs. You can play test a game for 2 years and still miss bugs. And if you want games to be like that, get ready to pay 2 to 3 times the price as games are now.
    But it is. Phil fish (Restauraunt) put out a product (Steak) which was released faulty (Steak not done right). People ask for a patch (Re-done product). Fish denies (Chef denies). It's just that simple. End of.

    The fact of the matter is a faulty product was released. And not a minor bug. Game breaking. I just hope people will see this is just one of many things wrong with Fish and Polytron. Maybe enough people might wise up and tell Fish to go fuck himself. He'll lose his job? You can't do a job right, you shouldn't have it. Maybe he should have thought about releasing this on steam and not act like a general prick. Maybe next time he'll think before he opens his stupid fucking mouth.
  • BoomeBoome310,215
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 07:07, Edited on 21 July 12 at 07:08 by BoomePermalink
    Obsidian Rocker said:
    But it is. Phil fish (Restauraunt) put out a product (Steak) which was released faulty (Steak not done right). People ask for a patch (Re-done product). Fish denies (Chef denies). It's just that simple. End of.

    The fact of the matter is a faulty product was released. And not a minor bug. Game breaking. I just hope people will see this is just one of many things wrong with Fish and Polytron. Maybe enough people might wise up and tell Fish to go fuck himself. He'll lose his job? You can't do a job right, you shouldn't have it. Maybe he should have thought about releasing this on steam and not act like a general prick. Maybe next time he'll think before he opens his stupid fucking mouth.
    But it isn't. End of.

    A. The steak isn't faulty, it may not be cooked to the customers preference, but that doesn't make the steak faulty. Anyone can still eat the steak and enjoy it.
    B. The game isn't faulty. If the game was faulty it wouldn't work for anyone. 1% of the people might be affected by the bug. (I agree with you it should be fixed)
    C. There are plenty of products with a higher fail rate than 1%. Some do get fixed, some don't. There's a Deathspank XBLA game with a game breaking bug that also needs a patch, yet EA decided not to fix this. I experienced this bug after 15+ hours into the game. I had to restart the game and play it over. Am I mad at the developers for this? No, it's life, I still played the game for a good amount of time, I got my moneys worth out of it even if I didn't replay it.
    D. Fish does want to fix the product, but unfortunately it's not economically feasible for his company to do so.
    Trials Evolution custom track builder. Search "B00ME"(spelt with 2 zeros) in Track Central.
  • Posted on 21 July 12 at 07:55Permalink
    Sean Reinhardl said:
    $40k a patch how are EPIC games still in porfit after gow2
    Epic Games do a lot more than making games and GoW isn't their highest income source, besides, they are a MS studio, do they pay 40K per patch?

    Hmm

    By the way, what does Sony charge?
  • TheFlayedDanTheFlayedDan105,869
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 08:03Permalink
    Make a broken product, pay the price.
  • MugenKairoMugenKairo252,554
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 08:24Permalink
    If it costs 40K to issue a patch then MS will be in big trouble. Perhaps they made their point this time because Phil is a wanker? In any case, Steam will triumph if M are not giving indie developers the support that they ned. Patches should be free.
    'If at first you don't succeed, you fail' GLaDOS
  • Team BissetTeam Bisset680,643
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 08:57Permalink
    Is it just me but he doesnt say 40k he says tens of thousands could be 20k, 30k 40k. Personally this is a witch hunt with him at the end being the crazy preacher trying to make everyone look worse than him. Plus Boome if a chef did bring you the wrong steak you would send it back get it done right or get a new one who cares if someone else wants it does that mean you should suffer. This guy should grow up take his game back fix it since it was economically viable to screw us over and realize a faulty game but he wants our money so thats ok.
    40k might be quite cheap its a one sided story whos to say that microsoft doesnt have to pay 200 people for those 2 weeks who have to go through every bit of coding and make sure the problems fixed
  • Removed Gamer

    Removed Gamer

    Posted on 21 July 12 at 09:19Permalink
    litepink said:
    I’d love to remain neutral on this, but can’t help myself:

    I think Phil Fish (of Polytron) could be forgiven for not spending $40,000 on a patch that affects 1% of the player base. Doesn’t seem to make financial sense to me, even if there are repercussions pertaining to the sales of Fez and future titles. What I find damning is his whining and finger pointing about it. He agreed to have his product sold on Xbox LIVE Arcade, so he knew what he was getting into. To turn around and try and point fingers at Microsoft looks childish to me. He made a spectacular game that has some flaws – apologize and move on.

    So Steam is so much better he says? He once said PC’s are “just for spreadsheets” facepalm. He also said modern Japanese games “just suck”, but when people said negative things about his game prior to release he said that handling the internet backlash was hard and that he doesn’t have “thick skin”. This coming from a guy who proclaimed that gamers are the “worst kind of people”.

    Seems he can dish it but can’t take it, and apparently likes to point fingers at others for his own wrongdoing. Therefore, Phil Fish is giant toddler in my eyes. (I hope he doesn’t read this, he might not be able to take it). A very smart and talented egotistical toddler.
    I kinda sorta agree with this post.

    I do feel, however, to charge so much money for a patch is unjustifiable. Whilst I believe Microsoft know how to make their money, there's a difference between being a good business and sucking the life out of people. facepalm
  • GridEXEGridEXE38,243
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 09:21Permalink
    litepink said:
    I’d love to remain neutral on this, but can’t help myself:

    I think Phil Fish (of Polytron) could be forgiven for not spending $40,000 on a patch that affects 1% of the player base. Doesn’t seem to make financial sense to me, even if there are repercussions pertaining to the sales of Fez and future titles. What I find damning is his whining and finger pointing about it. He agreed to have his product sold on Xbox LIVE Arcade, so he knew what he was getting into. To turn around and try and point fingers at Microsoft looks childish to me. He made a spectacular game that has some flaws – apologize and move on.

    So Steam is so much better he says? He once said PC’s are “just for spreadsheets” facepalm. He also said modern Japanese games “just suck”, but when people said negative things about his game prior to release he said that handling the internet backlash was hard and that he doesn’t have “thick skin”. This coming from a guy who proclaimed that gamers are the “worst kind of people”.

    Seems he can dish it but can’t take it, and apparently likes to point fingers at others for his own wrongdoing. Therefore, Phil Fish is giant toddler in my eyes. (I hope he doesn’t read this, he might not be able to take it). A very smart and talented egotistical toddler.
    bam, this is all this topic needs

    I'm glad to see the first reply be a very thoughtful one for once on here
  • misfit119misfit119910,378
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 09:38, Edited on 21 July 12 at 09:41 by misfit119Permalink
    xDAx AWESOME said:
    Anybody outwardly criticizing Phil Fish is no better than he is.
    When a celebrity, even if it's just an internet figure, makes an ass out of themselves they're inviting people to say things about them. So if he wants to hop up and down hooting and hollering like a monkey while throwing feces then I'm going to point and laugh. I might think stupid shit, everyone does, but I keep them off the internet where people can laugh / rage at my words. There's a lesson in there somewhere although I doubt he'd get it.

    Do I think Japanese games suck? Well, not really... but do I think he had the right to say it? Sure. Just like he had the right to tell you all to choke on his dick for the backlash you dealt on him. (lol)
    Does he have the right to think it? Sure. Does he have the right to express that opinion? Yep. Should he receive backlash for saying it in an absolutely asinine way, making jokes about it and generally belittling people for daring to disagree with him? Uh yeah, no shit. There's a difference between Keiji Inafune talking about how the games declined, Johnathan Blow saying that the games are joyless and Fish acting like a 4channer who got people to actually pay attention to him.

    If you were being harassed for an opinion you felt was being taken out of context, most of you would act like self-centered children as well. It just gets old reading comments of people attacking him when they are probably no better, and if even they are, are judgmental enough to judge him without ever knowing who he really is as a person.
    There is no out of context when he proceeds to go out onto twitter and then constantly bring up the issue. He could have just said "I stand by my belief that modern Japanese games aren't good. End of discussion." But instead he basically goads people on and acts kind of stupid. We see that and form an opinion. Welcome to being a human. If you see someone acting like an ass in a public forum then he is, by associating his actions and personality with his name, an ass. It doesn't matter if you see them doing it in person or online - if you act like an ass people will see that and make associations.

    Of course nobody is going to blame someone for saying something once or twice. You have opinions and you want to share it. But when you make an actual career out of shoving your foot into your mouth then people will notice. He states to a Japanese developer about Japanese games sucking but when people say things about Fez he whines. That right there tells you everything you need to know about him.

    Should his game have had so many bugs? Absolutely not. However, he pretty much made it and play tested it himself, without much outside help. Some things were bound to creep through. The fact that anybody is blaming him over a patch issue is ridiculous.
    If this was an indie game that was being released onto a PC where it can be patched as needed or fiddled with as the developer pleases I would agree with you. If this was released as an indie title for the indie game marketplace on XBL I would agree with you. But he chose to sign a deal to release the game on a console as a professional game. Once that happens HE is responsible for it functioning properly and if it doesn't it's his fault entirely. If he needed playtesters then hire them. Plenty of people are trying to get into that field, do it for dirt cheap pay and are all over the place. It's not hard.

    I'm sure you're all the same people playing games like Fallout and Skyrim, completely ignoring the unfinished product that they were/are - also ignoring that the hundred+ person teams probably have people on them that are much worse than Phil could ever be.
    What? Okay even if I'm willing to admit to those games being unfinished, messed up or whatever are we really comparing these two? That's like comparing a modern PC game with a frigging SNES game. Are we going to compare Crysis to Super Mario World? When you have a game like Fallout or Elder Scrolls where the game has hundreds of hours of content, a giant expansive world and a complex character building system it's going to have bugs. They shouldn't have bugs as bad as they are of course but it's going to have bugs. I get FAR more irate when you have a freaking glorified SNES platformer with serious issues than a gigantic monolithic game having issues.
    Looking to boost any MP achievements I don't have for any game I own.
  • Saint GerbilSaint Gerbil217,983
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 10:27Permalink
    Little pink is right on the money of course what most articles skip over is that the first patch MS did for free (as they do with all XLBA games) and the second and subsequent ones cost money.

    Sure 40K is steep but if you dont want to pay it you have already had 2 chances to get it right.
  • AnxsighetyAnxsighety1,238,577
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 11:16Permalink
    @Misfit - I would love to see the career he's made of shoving his foot in his mouth. Unless the 48 hrs he responded to people on Twitter is now his career, you're completely off base. He stubbornly stuck up for himself on a topic. We've all done it. And please spare me calling him a celebrity. Nobody really knew who he was before the gaming media blew this up, so that's absolute garbage.

    How is he supposed to afford playtesters? He created a studio essentially on his own and most of his funding came from winning indie game shows to help him create his product. He doesn't have a past backlog. This game took him years to make. Know something about him and his dev history before going off about how he should hire these people. He COULDN'T.

    Your last paragraph is hilarious. Do you know anything about game development? 2D and 3D games have their own ways to be done, but coding is coding. It doesn't matter what system you're talking about. Actually, your case about Fallout being hundreds of hours so it's understandable is faulty. Fez is roughly 6-10hrs probably. Say Fallout IS 100hrs. One guy making a ten hour game, vs. a hundred person+ team making a hundred hour game means there is more man power per content. Not to mention they have testers THEY could have paid and clearly didn't. So PLEASE save me this notion and anger that you think Fish should have hired play testers yet defend a company that can actually afford it but couldn't be bothered. Not to mention Fallout and Skyrim are from huge franchises to begin with. They have much less of an excuse. Please.
    Nothing is true - everything is permitted.
  • XonatronXonatron160,290
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 12:58Permalink
    xDAx AWESOME said:
    Anybody outwardly criticizing Phil Fish is no better than he is.

    You all have your opinions... and whether or not you think he's a toddler when you don't know him at all, just know somewhere inside of your head you have ideas that other people wouldn't like. People just don't give a shit to hear them, and his was in a setting the media could eat up.

    ...

    If you were being harassed for an opinion you felt was being taken out of context, most of you would act like self-centered children as well. It just gets old reading comments of people attacking him when they are probably no better, and if even they are, are judgmental enough to judge him without ever knowing who he really is as a person.

    Should his game have had so many bugs? Absolutely not. However, he pretty much made it and play tested it himself, without much outside help. Some things were bound to creep through. The fact that anybody is blaming him over a patch issue is ridiculous.

    ...

    Fez is a GREAT game. It should also be judged on just that... not on the so-called character judgement of who made it.
    I couldn't agree more. Thank you.
    Matthew Doucette, Xona Games
  • Posted on 21 July 12 at 13:30Permalink
    I understand that Polytron is a small developer and all, but I have to agree with many of these other posts. If I bought a game at retail that didn't work, I would take it back.

    I don't pretend to know all of the details of Microsoft's patch process and it may very well need to be overhauled, but it was my understanding that Fez has sold well on XBLA, and it seems that the developer doesn't believe it is obligated to fix an important issue simply because it is a small developer and they don't want the cost of certification to take their revenues from the sales.

    Don' forget that this game was several years in the making. Why it needed a patch in the first place is eyebrow raising, in the least, and that the patch was then hurried to such an extent that it broke the game just seems careless to me.

    I don't own the game, but I've been interested in it for a while. After all of this, though, it's going to have to be a pretty steep Deal of the Week for me to throw down cash for it now. I just hope that somebody, whether that be MS or developers as a whole, have learned something from this issue and that it is at least less likely to repeat itself in the future.
    No one expects TheRequiem95!
  • XonatronXonatron160,290
    Posted on 21 July 12 at 13:42, Edited on 21 July 12 at 13:45 by XonatronPermalink
    TheRequiem95 said:
    Don' forget that this game was several years in the making. Why it needed a patch in the first place is eyebrow raising, in the least, and that the patch was then hurried to such an extent that it broke the game just seems careless to me.
    Several years of development doesn't equal even several months of QA which never equals testing in production (that's you and I and all gamers testing it on the field)!

    For example, we had three Xbox's and two PC's to QA (as a developer) our games during development. The majority of the QA was performed on the PC's. We weren't even releasing our games to PC. Next only a tiny fraction was QA'ed on two of the Xbox's. The games would be played and run through completely to ensure they work, perform well, and save. But we did not have many different versions of Xbox's to test on. Could we be sure it would save on an Xbox without a hard drive? I'm not sure if we even tested for that. What about the 4th controller? We did test that. What about pulling the memory card have you selected it to be used as storage? We tested that. Many variations can happen and even though we did our best, a proper QA team should do it better.

    Bugs are released all the time. Save file bugs where you are deep into the game are just very hard to catch, when they are not reproducible 100%.
    Matthew Doucette, Xona Games
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