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Filter Games By Encoding System

AuthorMessage
zzUrbanSpaceman
Posted on 19 February 16 at 04:00
stordoff said:zzUrbanSpaceman said:For practical purposes, I have not seen any proof that there are any other regions beyond the main three (PAL, NTSC, NTSC-J) that actually restrict loading.I'm pretty sure Shin Sangoku Musou 4 Special only works on a Japanese NTSC-J box, and not any of the other NTSC-J boxes. I've just ordered a copy, so will try and confirm (IIRC my NTSC-J box is from Hong Kong).Interesting. So there may be a few edge cases, but we can deal with those when they come up. I have someone near me with a South Korean 360 I can use to test games too, I'll see if I can pick up a copy too (or you can lend it to me).
I host a podcast about gamerscore and achievements, check it out! http://zedtozed.com/
QuickMythril
667,821
QuickMythril
Posted on 19 February 16 at 05:09
yeah the only weird ones i know about are that Conan JP, which you said works with Japanese and Korean systems. DDR Universe 2 is NTSC/U + that weird NTSC/J (excluding whatever), so if we can figure out what console cannot play either of those games, that will fill in that blank.

then there's SSM4 Special, as mentioned it's Japan Only. also the Quake 2 disc (bonus disc with Quake 4) is PAL + NTSC/U + NTSC/J (Excluding Japan).

there may be some others but i've yet to see them in any database made by anyone. could be a few undiscovered oddities, but for the vast majority, games will be locked to either 1, 2 or all 3 region (RF), out of PAL, NTSC/U and NTSC/J.
zzUrbanSpaceman
Posted on 19 February 16 at 06:24
It would be interesting to see what the actual region codes are on Shin Sangoku Musou 4.

I'd also like to know a bit more about the Hong Kong 360 - I was never really able to verify if this is actually a thing, or whether it's a console from a nearby region being sold in Hong Kong. Several of the Asia markets have a bit of a mish-mash of available consoles (imports from other regions), but none that are strictly local.

Quake 2: Crandy and myself just tested the NTSC and PAL copies of this, respectively, and neither worked in our NTSC-J (Japan) consoles. Interesting. (Quake 4 PAL was region free, incidentally). I'll have to ship this off to my friend with the Korean console for further testing.
I host a podcast about gamerscore and achievements, check it out! http://zedtozed.com/
TheMaize
994,000
TheMaize
Posted on 19 February 16 at 06:41, Edited on 19 February 16 at 07:00 by TheMaize
Hong kong have their own.

But since hong kong kinda works like the hub for paralelimported electronics going into china, you will have to ask if its a hong kong version or import when you buy.

All major asian countries do have their own, but you are right....since parallelimport isnt being controlled in asia as much as in EU/US, a lot of consoles for sale will have been bought during sales in other regions, and repacked with a new poweradapter.

Most of the 360 found in shops in HK is in native PAL, anything else will be import.

In china, region didnt matter, as 99% of the consoles would be "homebrewed" and by that, regionfree. As no 360 game or console was ever released in china due to past laws.

And just to make everything clear...in most terms, china, macau and hong kong is run like independant countries, taiwan even more so. Due to its size, macau eill usualy only have hong kong versions of everything though, where the rest have individual systems
QuickMythril
667,821
QuickMythril
Posted on 19 February 16 at 09:20
zzUrbanSpaceman said:It would be interesting to see what the actual region codes are on Shin Sangoku Musou 4.so i'm glad you asked about this because i was going to explain a bit about the region coding system and now i won't feel like i'm rambling for no reason.

technical mumbo jumbo:
*** Spoiler - click to reveal ***
zzUrbanSpaceman
Posted on 19 February 16 at 13:24
It's interesting info, but I am pretty curious where the assumptions on the bit ranges come from, in particular why is bit 2 of the Asia byte associated with China? There's no China console to test this theory with, so I just wonder why you've consistently referred to that bit as the China bit.

We've also shown already that F9 in the Asia byte didn't exclude a South Korean console, so what is bit 3 (value of 4) all about? And bit 4 we assume is ... well, who knows. I'll have Quake 2 tested in a South Korean console as soon as I can arrange it.
I host a podcast about gamerscore and achievements, check it out! http://zedtozed.com/
Nomstuff
569,821
Nomstuff
Posted on 19 February 16 at 13:28
China does have it's own Xbox One however, and the regional stuff would still be useful for that, and the odd rare case where something is restricted outside of there.
zzUrbanSpaceman
Posted on 19 February 16 at 13:40
Oh, definitely, I'd want to see a similar flagging for games that only work on Chinese Xbox Ones (and conversely, rest of the world games that don't work on Chinese Xbox Ones, if such a thing exists), however my question was more about why, in the technical details Mythril discussed above, there is such a thing as a "China" flag for Xbox 360 games, and how it became known as the "China" flag.
I host a podcast about gamerscore and achievements, check it out! http://zedtozed.com/
I8ITackyticsI8I
Posted on 19 February 16 at 13:42
Don't see anything wrong with an additional filter for this, +1.
Nomstuff
569,821
Nomstuff
Posted on 19 February 16 at 14:01
zzUrbanSpaceman said:Oh, definitely, I'd want to see a similar flagging for games that only work on Chinese Xbox Ones (and conversely, rest of the world games that don't work on Chinese Xbox Ones, if such a thing exists), however my question was more about why, in the technical details Mythril discussed above, there is such a thing as a "China" flag for Xbox 360 games, and how it became known as the "China" flag.the Region tags indicate region of sale, rather than encoding. so [china] was because that was where the game was sold.
UK360 COMMANDO
Posted on 19 February 16 at 14:21
It totally should have happened ages ago. I was banging on about it a long time ago and got shot down. Any information is better than none. For some reason people think it needs to be all or nothing.

We have a vote system for an average completion time. Surely this is all that needs to be implemented for region too. If games played were able to be marked as a region then the community would complete this very simple task just as they do the completion time.
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zzUrbanSpaceman
Posted on 19 February 16 at 14:52
Nomstuff said:zzUrbanSpaceman said:Oh, definitely, I'd want to see a similar flagging for games that only work on Chinese Xbox Ones (and conversely, rest of the world games that don't work on Chinese Xbox Ones, if such a thing exists), however my question was more about why, in the technical details Mythril discussed above, there is such a thing as a "China" flag for Xbox 360 games, and how it became known as the "China" flag.the Region tags indicate region of sale, rather than encoding. so [china] was because that was where the game was sold.I think you aren't quite following what I'm talking about. I'm discussin the technical details of the region format as its encoded on the disc, nothing to do with TA "flags" or sales regions.

I am talking directly about the technical detail that is hidden behind QuickMithril's spoiler tag.

There was never a Chinese Xbox 360. QuickMithril claims that there is a tiny bit of data encoded on every 360 disc that refers to China. I am disputing this.

Once again, it has nothing to do with existing TA regions, flags, or the Xbox One. Additionally 360 games would never have been manufactured for China, because there was no 360 to produce them for. Again, just for clarity, this has nothin to do with the Xbox One of th Chinese specific games for that console - this is a completely different, although related, issue.
I host a podcast about gamerscore and achievements, check it out! http://zedtozed.com/
TheMaize
994,000
TheMaize
Posted on 19 February 16 at 14:56, Edited on 19 February 16 at 15:06 by TheMaize
zzUrbanSpaceman said:Oh, definitely, I'd want to see a similar flagging for games that only work on Chinese Xbox Ones (and conversely, rest of the world games that don't work on Chinese Xbox Ones, if such a thing exists), however my question was more about why, in the technical details Mythril discussed above, there is such a thing as a "China" flag for Xbox 360 games, and how it became known as the "China" flag.My bet is,that even 12 years ago. People was expecting the laws in china to change at some point.
And its easier to originally add the countries in the basecode, than change the whole system later, if it becomes relevant

Edit:
After rereading your post, i see that wasnt really your question though
Nomstuff
569,821
Nomstuff
Posted on 19 February 16 at 15:05
zzUrbanSpaceman said:Nomstuff said:zzUrbanSpaceman said:Oh, definitely, I'd want to see a similar flagging for games that only work on Chinese Xbox Ones (and conversely, rest of the world games that don't work on Chinese Xbox Ones, if such a thing exists), however my question was more about why, in the technical details Mythril discussed above, there is such a thing as a "China" flag for Xbox 360 games, and how it became known as the "China" flag.the Region tags indicate region of sale, rather than encoding. so [china] was because that was where the game was sold.I think you aren't quite following what I'm talking about. I'm discussin the technical details of the region format as its encoded on the disc, nothing to do with TA "flags" or sales regions.

I am talking directly about the technical detail that is hidden behind QuickMithril's spoiler tag.

There was never a Chinese Xbox 360. QuickMithril claims that there is a tiny bit of data encoded on every 360 disc that refers to China. I am disputing this.

Once again, it has nothing to do with existing TA regions, flags, or the Xbox One. Additionally 360 games would never have been manufactured for China, because there was no 360 to produce them for. Again, just for clarity, this has nothin to do with the Xbox One of th Chinese specific games for that console - this is a completely different, although related, issue.


Sorry, misunderstood then.
MathGuy42
519,552
MathGuy42
Posted on 19 February 16 at 18:24
Any first hand experience with LEGO Batman (JP) ? It might add a wrinkle. Due to it not being Backward Compatible yet, I've found posts such as this one: -It's been reported that the Japanese version will not work on a Japanese Xbox 360 S (slim) model console I haven't seen any first hand reports though.

Are there other games that only work on certain 360 console iterations? It's probably rare enough that it shouldn't be in the proposed filter, but it might be something worth mentioning in the upper right info box.

On a somewhat similar note, there may be something special about the LEGO Batman that was bundled with Pure . It was reported firsthand that it wouldn't install via BC. I sent a PM to see if that had resolved itself yet.
QuickMythril
667,821
QuickMythril
Posted on 19 February 16 at 20:14, Edited on 19 February 16 at 20:22 by QuickMythril
LEGO Batman JP is just the same region code as any other NTSC/J (excludes China), FD. it's not BC because it's a different title, which is why it's even stackable. as far as why it doesn't work in 360 S consoles, that's very odd. i have a NTSC/J 360 S (should be Japanese) so i will test that game out at some point. i'm kind of skeptical that could even happen...

as far as the China bit, i got that info from other programs made by people who spend a lot of time studying the 360. one of which allows you to select what region console you have. another program that can read and decode your nand also tells you the region code of the system. i don't think they just made up all that info. and if every pal and ntsc/u game is FF then why is EVERY ntsc/j FD? because they planned from the beginning to have china use their own set of games and consoles, but that never became a reality.

http://i.imgur.com/VBRpQJq.png

so far i've only ever read the nand from NTSC/U consoles, i'd like to check out my japanese one sometime to be sure. i would also love to know what the 3rd mystery bit is. i have a feeling the only way to be sure about what consoles are considered what region, is to actually dump the nands of each asian console and see what it actually is coded as.

EDIT: also the Lego Batman / Pure bundle should not be any different than the original discs. they weren't together on one disc or anything were they? there are usually mulitple "runs" of games from what i have noticed.

looking at pure: http://5.39.25.104/verified.php?f=pressings&q=66A1D35B see there are 8 different SS/DMI combos, but they are all the same XEX. if that is the same then the console should not be able to distinguish them.

now cod3 http://5.39.25.104/verified.php?f=name&q=call+of+duty+3 there are two different PAL copies with different XEX, but the title id is the same as the US version, so no stacking.

the lego batman / pure bundle was common enough that i'm sure someone scanned it into abgx360. if it was different enough to cause issues with the xbox one... i would think it would have to at least been a different XEX or something,
Spilner
683,397
Spilner
Posted on 19 February 16 at 20:18
All the previous JP stacks have worked in BC
Pom poms at the ready, cheerleaders!
QuickMythril
667,821
QuickMythril
Posted on 19 February 16 at 20:24
Spilner said:All the previous JP stacks have worked in BCbecause MS specifically added each Title ID to the BC list. they didn't add Lego Batman JP, but they always could. maybe there really is some issue with the discs not working in slim consoles, and it's going to cause trouble with the xbox one also, so they just held off on adding that one.
xAcCeSs DeNiEd
Posted on 19 February 16 at 20:34
+1 from me. Don't use other region based games but I can see how it would benefit those who use different systems.
MathGuy42
519,552
MathGuy42
Posted on 19 February 16 at 20:33
Thanks for the info, QuickMythril. The reason the Japanese 360 S issue came to my attention is that someone hypothesized (comment #11) that perhaps the Xbox One emulates a 360 Slim, which is causing a technical issue with Lego Batman JP backwards compatibility.

On the other hand, since LEGO Batman and LEGO Batman (JP) are separate titles, it could just be a legal issue where permission wasn't given for some reason. If it is legal, that seems strange since all the previous stacks work, like Spilner said, including those of The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings . Since LEGO Batman and The Witcher 2 are both published by Warner Bros, I wouldn't have expected different rules. The only other issue I can see is that my LEGO Batman JP case says Activision on it, in addition to TT Games and WB. I don't know if Activision is involved with The Witcher 2 at all.
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