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Site Leaderboard Proposal: GS/TA Weighted By Completion

AuthorMessage
zzUrbanSpaceman
Posted on 18 March 16 at 23:20
As discussed on episode 12 of the Zed to Zed podcast, I had an interesting idea for a new type of site leaderboard.

It comes from the premise that the existing completion percentage leaderboard is not terribly indicative given the wide range of gamerscore people have, so the idea was that you could combine completion percentage and gamerscore (or TA score) to create a kind of weighted score instead.

The calculation would be very simple: Completion Percentage * GS (or TA)

Examples:

* Someone with 200,000 GS and a completion percentage of 50% would have a weighted score of 100,000 (50% of 200,000).
* Someone with 10,000 GS and a completion percentage of 95% would would have a weighted score of 9,500.
* At time of writing, I am 289,152GS with 33.19% completion, so my weighted score would be 95,970 (rounded).

And so on.

The idea is to provide a more all-round score that reflects both completions and sheer scoring ability.

The weighting could easily be applied to both GS and TA. I'd like to see both.
Myself, Freamwhole and Crandy host a podcast all about achievements. Checkout it out! http://www.zedtozed.com/
LV 1 Blue Slime
Posted on 18 March 16 at 23:40
mygamercard.net or whatever had a leaderboard like this if I remember right. There's probably already a thread about it but I'm too lazy to search for it.

I like the idea, though. I'll use one of my precious upvotes.
"Slutty outfit? You're one to talk." "This isn't slutty, it's strategically placed."
zzUrbanSpaceman
Posted on 18 March 16 at 23:44
I did a basic search for leaderboard suggestions but didn't see one like this, happy to be pointed to it though if it exists.
Myself, Freamwhole and Crandy host a podcast all about achievements. Check it out! http://www.zedtozed.com/
Runner eGirl
384,588
Runner eGirl
Posted on 21 March 16 at 14:43
It would have to be 4 different calculations (TA, GS, with DLC, DLC I own), but I like this very much! Using my 14th vote on it :)
KaibaChaos
440,058
KaibaChaos
Posted on 23 March 16 at 19:50
Remembered this after hearing it on the Podcast today, yes, this has my vote :D
LV 1 Blue Slime
Posted on 23 March 16 at 21:18
zzUrbanSpaceman said:I did a basic search for leaderboard suggestions but didn't see one like this, happy to be pointed to it though if it exists.I think it was this thread I was thinking of (from memory, I'm too lazy to check all 150 posts) but it doesn't matter since it's not in the wishlist forum anyway. Vote away headspin
"Slutty outfit? You're one to talk." "This isn't slutty, it's strategically placed."
Zoot Marlowe
419,387
Zoot Marlowe
Posted on 28 March 16 at 08:46
I like this idea a lot so I am using my very lost vote on it!
Fear Me For I Have the Power to Destroy You.
Segendary Ty
504,548
Segendary Ty
Posted on 28 March 16 at 18:46
I don't like this proposal because that would mean completion% is outweighed by having a ton of gs. If I am at 100% completion at 100k I could be outscored by someone with 51% with double the gs.

Completionists are already screwed over enough, it becomes harder and harder to get to the 100% for some. This proposal should be altered so the scale is favored towards those last procentages.

So i suggest basing this off the amount of achievements / amount of achievements gathered. Someone who lacks 1000 of their achievements scores the same as someone who also lacks that amount. Regardless of out of how many they have obtained. Think about it, one man's 1% is another's 20% even if it's the same amount of achievements locked!
zzUrbanSpaceman
Posted on 29 March 16 at 02:38, Edited on 29 March 16 at 02:39 by zzUrbanSpaceman
True, but on the other hand, that person on 51% also had to earn twice as much gamerscore. What the calculation does is actually devalue easy gamerscore. Yes you can counteract having a low completion by pouring on the easy gamerscore, but this has diminishing returns. The people who will end up at the top are those who have played a lot of games, and completed a lot of them too.

I think this is exactly in line with meeting a completionists goals, while offsetting the easy gamerscore issue while still allowing them to compete on this leaderboard - to a point.
Myself, Freamwhole and Crandy host a podcast all about achievements. Check it out! http://www.zedtozed.com/
Segendary Ty
504,548
Segendary Ty
Posted on 29 March 16 at 03:08
Ratio is not involved in this calculation. Difficulty or rarity is not included here. Completion leaderboards should be about who has the highest % not about how many we've scored. It's about how little is left.
If this leaderboards replaces the % leaderboards, what incentive is there to be a completionist when you can easily just drop your % in exchange for some gamerscore whoring to maintain or increase your position...
LV 1 Blue Slime
Posted on 29 March 16 at 04:08
...I don't think anyone said anything about replacing leaderboards?

It's just another type of leaderboard to add to the list. Since we've managed with leaderboards for dumb shit like blogs and forum posts, I think we'll survive the implementation of this one too. If you think it's stupid, keep tracking the regular completion leaderboard. Nothing changes there.
"Slutty outfit? You're one to talk." "This isn't slutty, it's strategically placed."
zzUrbanSpaceman
Posted on 29 March 16 at 06:42
Segendary Ty said:Ratio is not involved in this calculation. Difficulty or rarity is not included here. Completion leaderboards should be about who has the highest % not about how many we've scored. It's about how little is left.
If this leaderboards replaces the % leaderboards, what incentive is there to be a completionist when you can easily just drop your % in exchange for some gamerscore whoring to maintain or increase your position...
This was never proposed to replace any leaderboard.

Scenario:

Let's say I am 100% with 2000/2000 achievements at 100,000GS. My score on the leaderboard is 100,000.

I have a friend who is 50% with 1000/2000 achievements and 200,000GS. His score on the leaderboard is 100,000.

We both opt to start a new game with 50 achievements, unlocking half of the achievements, for a total of 500GS.

New figures:

I am now at 98.78% with 2025/2050 achievements at 100,500GS. My score on the leaderboard is 99,274 (yep, it went down).

My friend is at 50% with 1025/2050 achievements at 200,500gs. His score on the leaderboard is 100,250. Position went up, but he still does have double the GS.

To a completionist, this might seem a little wrong, but what it means is that just having a high completion by itself isn't enough - you need to also complete a lot of games. A GS of 200,000 and 95% completion is a lot more impressive than a GS of 200,000 and 50% completion, and this leaderboard would reflect that.

It gets away from people artificially inflating their completion by simply not playing games.
Myself, Freamwhole and Crandy host a podcast all about achievements. Check it out! http://www.zedtozed.com/
LuckyConquerer2
Posted on 29 March 16 at 15:03
I like this.
Elyoh
596,028
Elyoh
Posted on 30 March 16 at 00:00
Has definitely been mentioned before, but I don't think it ever had its own thread.

I loved it on mygamercard, and would love it here.
No God, know fear. Know God, no fear.
The Globalizer
Posted on 30 March 16 at 01:31
I like this. I should probably resuscitate my request for a completed game percentage leaderboard as well.
SilentJay76
311,088
SilentJay76
Posted on 30 March 16 at 09:24
This seems about as useful as the current feedback score to me. (Not very.) All the other scores on this site are fairly obvious. This would be a bit obtuse...
Segendary Ty
504,548
Segendary Ty
Posted on 30 March 16 at 13:29, Edited on 30 March 16 at 13:33 by Segendary Ty
Again the gamerscore outweighs completion% this makes no sense. If anything you should let go of gamerscore and involve ratio instead.

Either that or make it non-linear. I mean the completion% has a cap of a 100%. Gamerscore has no reachable cap. Therefore gamerscore will always outweigh it.
To pool completionist up against each other is great. I mean my 90% might be better than someone on 90% with fewer gamerscore. Or someone with the same gamerscore but with 80% etc.

Therefore the only way to make it fair is to look at the amount of locked achievements. Because regardless of what we have done, it's about how many we have left to do. This encourages people to recover their beandives better and sticking with getting just those extra achievements rather than hopping from game to game like a kid in the candystore

The Globalizer said:I like this. I should probably resuscitate my request for a completed game percentage leaderboard as well.Also against this because 5 phone games vs completing say GoW... Also people with unobtainable achievements are screwed. I mean 1/1000 achievements is way less significant than 1/20 games...
zzUrbanSpaceman
Posted on 30 March 16 at 14:05
Er, you realize that the completion percentage is exactly that: the percentage of achievements you've unlocked out of all that are associated with your tag, i.e. against those that are locked. It appears you're suggesting having a completion percentage weighted by your completion percentage.

As for using ratio; well that's roughly what you'd get from the % * TA version. % * pure ratio is going to give some strange figures I think, and small values with a lot of decimal places aren't as satisfying as big numbers, aethestically. You could multiply by 100 or 1000 I suppose...

Anyway, no measurement is going to be perfect. I like this one because it's simple and forces you to play, and complete, many games to get to the top of the board.

If you want to propose an alternative board, go ahead. I'd warn against trying to make it too complicated a calculation though, I don't think that will be well received or understood. The DLC ratio calculation is confusing enough as it is.
Myself, Freamwhole and Crandy host a podcast all about achievements. Check it out! http://www.zedtozed.com/
Segendary Ty
504,548
Segendary Ty
Posted on 30 March 16 at 15:14
No I'm suggesting to have it weighed against gs but in a different method. Therefore just use the amount of locked achievements, compared to the amount of other people's locked achievements. I could have 20 achievements left to do or 200. The % can end up being the same. But whether I have 20 achievements left out of 10.020 or 120 doesn't matter as I still have the same amount of achievements left.

So don't do locked/total possible but just locked. This also means bean dives will fuck you over because any achievement obtained won't count in your position on the leaderboard.
Elyoh
596,028
Elyoh
Posted on 31 March 16 at 05:39
If I understand you correctly, a leaderboard that shows players ranked only by locked achievements would give pretty much the exact same leaderboard as we currently have for the completion. Just with even LESS affect on overall how much you have played, which is the exact opposite of what we're trying to achieve with a completion score.

With your suggested leaderboard, someone who had completed 10,000 achievements with 1 locked is even with someone who have completed 100 achievements with 1 locked. It has the exact same problem as the current completion percentage leaderboard, and would achieve nothing new. You could still artificially place yourself high on that leaderboard.

The best part of a completion score is the following -
zzUrbanSpaceman said:It gets away from people artificially inflating their completion by simply not playing games.My score, using "DLC I Own", would be 396,352. So for someone to beat me and only have 50% completion, they would need a TA of 800k, compared to my 415k I currently have. There are only 250 people with 800k+ TA on the site. Outscoring my completion score obviously isn't really an option, you would have to match it with a higher completion percentage.
No God, know fear. Know God, no fear.
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