Game Discussion: Grand Theft Auto V Forum

Grand Theft Auto V Multi-Genre Discussion

AuthorMessage
Allgorhythm
257,008
Allgorhythm
Posted on 09 October 17 at 16:17, Edited on 09 October 17 at 16:36 by Allgorhythm
misfit119 said:
Yeah, it was weird. Previously you had stuff like GTA and AssCreed alongside stuff like Minecraft in the sandbox genre. Then a decision was made due to limitations being placed on sandbox thanks to this "all in one approach" to split the two into open world and sandbox. This removed the limitations that were keeping some open world games from being in the genre although it does make for some confusing wording. I still refer to games like GTA as sandbox games in person but on here I use open world.
I'm a team player so I'll fall in line with the TA definitions. Personally, I view the genre taxonomy as a hierarchical classification with a family tree. History and lineage play an important role in categorizing games into genres.

Steve Breslin, while teaching a Game Design and game Narrative course at the State University of New York at Buffalo wrote an excellent article on the History & Theory of sandbox game play:

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132470/the_histo....php

He feels the sandbox genre originated with The Sims and GTA III:

The metaphor of the "sandbox game" finally emerged at the turn of the century, around the publication The Sims and the following year, Grand Theft Auto III, the two games which are traditionally considered the two original and canonical "sandbox" games.
The invention of the term did indeed accompany a new development in game design, but this was not, as the term suggests, player freedom, which was already available by any number of means: non-linearity; the lack of objectives or central storyline; automatic variation of the game-world and game-behavior.
Unfortunately, the article does not mention the role of Shenmue--the first open world game. GTA III departed from its 2D predecessors and adopted a Shenmue-style 3D open world with open-ended gameplay elements where free roaming upstaged the central story. Shenmue was the primary influence on GTA III with its immersive world where you could explore everything--homes, stores, play video games in arcades, etc. GTA III also adopted Shenmue's real life weather & day/night cycles

In other words, Shenmue was the groundbreaker but GTA III was the commercial success presenting the Shenmue style of play in a super-fun context. Although Shenmue is a sandbox game (by TA's old definition), it is usually not classified as such because it came before GTA III and The Sims that are considered to have originated the genre.

Shenmue was such a massive game that it overwhelmed many players. The open world style of play was unprecedented and some found it bewildering. Nevertheless, Shenmue prepared people for GTA III so they weren't overwhelmed by the ambitious open world of GTA III. GTA III, in my opinion, had a greater fun factor with its exciting car chases through city streets into back allies employing every facet of the open city maps. I feel this additional thrill was what accounted for GTA III's commercial success while Shenmue (though it sold a lot of copies) was unable to break even with its massive development costs.
misfit119
866,751
misfit119
Posted on 11 October 17 at 06:30
Allgorhythm said:
I'm a team player so I'll fall in line with the TA definitions. Personally, I view the genre taxonomy as a hierarchical classification with a family tree. History and lineage play an important role in categorizing games into genres.
That's the rub - they really don't. Many genres are used and misused by the media so that we've reached a point where going by public definition is essentially meaningless. It took me awhile to realize how bad it truly is. I've read so many game design books, and studied it in college, and have come to the realization that trying to apply blanket genres relies on each place coming to an agreement about what that genre actually means.

I see stuff like Devil May Cry being called hack and slash and die a little inside. You have stuff like Mirror's Edge being nominated for best Action-Adventure game even though, realistically, that genre is so wildly varied that without using sub-genres to differentiate it seems to include almost any game. Then you see games like Alan Wake called survival-horror and have to wonder what words mean anymore.

That's why I tend to point to the TA genre definitions instead of trying to explain myself using outside sources. By and large they just really don't matter. I might know the taxonomy of what Dungeon Crawler means in the field of video games and the origins of the term Hack & Slash but it doesn't mean much in the face of the inertia of the insistent. We can simply try to maintain consistency on TA.
Looking to boost any MP achievements I don't have for any game I own.
FEAR EPIDEMIC
1,034,337
FEAR EPIDEMIC
Posted on 11 October 17 at 17:55
misfit119 said:
I see stuff like Devil May Cry being called hack and slash and die a little inside.
A bit off topic but what do you consider it.
Allgorhythm
257,008
Allgorhythm
Posted on 11 October 17 at 19:41
misfit119 said:
Allgorhythm said:
I'm a team player so I'll fall in line with the TA definitions. Personally, I view the genre taxonomy as a hierarchical classification with a family tree. History and lineage play an important role in categorizing games into genres.
That's the rub - they really don't. Many genres are used and misused by the media so that we've reached a point where going by public definition is essentially meaningless. It took me awhile to realize how bad it truly is. I've read so many game design books, and studied it in college, and have come to the realization that trying to apply blanket genres relies on each place coming to an agreement about what that genre actually means.
I'm sure we're in agreement. Genres are a way to classify works of art based on stylistic criteria. The definition of the genre establishes the standard by which you can do the classification. In most arts, although you have differences of opinion, there exist generally accepted genre definitions. In video games, you do not. So, TA created a list of genre definitions so that we would have some standards we could use in the classifications. Admittedly, the definitions need some work but, eventually, they will be refined.

On an emotional level, I feel a twinge of regret that we no longer call Sleeping Dogs a sandbox game. Intellectually, however, I have no objection. We have a standard and we apply it to the games.

Note that I did not pull some hyped up media article to present my case. The media, overall, has very little sense of past and future. They live in the moment. I referenced an article by a game developer and academic who presented a comprehensive analysis of the subject.

The theatre has had over 2500 years to figure out what a tragedy is. Video gaming has had less than half a century for its genres. So, until the industry as a whole comes to a consensus regarding genres, TA will have some stability relying on its hand crafted standards.
misfit119
866,751
misfit119
Posted on 11 October 17 at 21:05
Allgorhythm said:
The theatre has had over 2500 years to figure out what a tragedy is. Video gaming has had less than half a century for its genres. So, until the industry as a whole comes to a consensus regarding genres, TA will have some stability relying on its hand crafted standards.
Very much this. So for right now it's kind of hard to really say what any particular genre truly is. Thus I really tend to just super fixate on the TA definitions and just go with it. That said your'e also correct in them needing some tweaks.

FEAR EPIDEMIC said:
misfit119 said:
I see stuff like Devil May Cry being called hack and slash and die a little inside.
A bit off topic but what do you consider it.
I'm honestly not entirely sure. But I look at the issue like this. We have three "genres" that are all called Hack and Slash by the gaming media.

* You've got the D&D-ish games that focus entirely on combat. So stuff like Diablo and Torchlight would fit.

* You've got beat 'em ups that happen to use weapons. Stuff like Golden Axe or the D&D side scrollers.

* You've got the combo based, third person action games. Stuff like the new Ninja Gaiden series and Devil May Cry.

That these three very different types of games are all called Hack and Slash is just bewildering to me. It means that the name tells you very little about what to expect when playing the game beyond that weapons will be involved.
Looking to boost any MP achievements I don't have for any game I own.
Zonrith1
574,043
Zonrith1
Posted on 12 October 17 at 16:01
No, not a Sandbox per our very restrictive usage employed by the site (done to free up Open World and make it a separate thing).

As to the request, agree not an RPG. Majority was already reached. No change being made, but wanted to get that formally announced so everyone knows the submission is considered closed.

You can go back to talking about how Hack & Slash is everything yet nothing and how the media is to blame for all of gaming's genre woes. wink
Eclectic Gamers Podcast: http://eclecticgamers.com
Allgorhythm
257,008
Allgorhythm
Posted on 12 October 17 at 16:52
Zonrith1 said:
You can go back to talking about how Hack & Slash is everything yet nothing and how the media is to blame for all of gaming's genre woes. wink
laugh I think I've beaten that dead horse here enough. I'll wait until we have a first draft of the new H&S definition.
misfit119
866,751
misfit119
Posted on 12 October 17 at 21:37
Zonrith1 said:
media is to blame for all of gaming's genre woes. wink
It's all you damn kids and that hippity-hop music. Get off my lawn!
Looking to boost any MP achievements I don't have for any game I own.
Information Posted on 12 June 19 at 13:53
Jackimo1999 has removed their disagreement about the genres applied to this game
Information Posted on 12 June 19 at 13:57
Jackimo1999 has registered their disagreement about the genres applied to this game
Action adventure should be re-added. This game checks literally every box. Exploration of the game environment through collectibles and side missions, a strong storyline, interaction with non-player characters such as Jimmy and Lamar through the hangout options, as well as random encounters with citizens on the street, puzzle solving, such as the hacking minigames, as well as plenty of action. It's got everything. I would really like to know why Action-Adventure was removed at all.
Information Posted on 15 June 19 at 14:03
LuxeTH has registered their disagreement about the genres applied to this game
Where's Action-Adventure? And what "First-Person Shooter" doing there?
KasugaSama
116,683
KasugaSama
Posted on 16 July 19 at 01:47
No Action-Adventure as it's already implied by the other genres present. Shooter and Open World.

Also, First-Person Shooter is present because the Xbox One version of GTA 5 has a First Person mode. Meaning you can play/shoot in FPS, or TPS.
Everything you do is a balloon.
napoearth
650,906
napoearth
Posted on 19 September 19 at 15:06
Sandbox used to be my genre when it meant stuff like GTA and Assassin's Creed. Then they changed what sandbox was and it became Action-Adventure Open World. Now that's a pathetic shit show that looks nothing like what I started working on the leaderboard for.
I like Texas 'cause Texas is the only state ballsy enough to have its own toast. - Mitch Hedberg
Information Posted on 23 September 19 at 12:28
Destroyer 3569 has registered their disagreement about the genres applied to this game
Add racing. The tutorial at the start requires a race against Lamar on the campaign and there is a mission which requires you to race as well.
Destroyer 3569
Posted on 23 September 19 at 12:30
Rather against Lamar on the online mode at the start, but racing still needs to be added due to the campaign mission.
FEAR EPIDEMIC
1,034,337
FEAR EPIDEMIC
Posted on 24 September 19 at 08:18, Edited on 26 September 19 at 00:33 by FEAR EPIDEMIC
Adding racing because they have a mission in it isn't a good reason at all. Do you know how many games have missions where the play style isn't the norm? Are they supposed to add genres in for all of those games too because of it?

Or maybe they all have side missions/quests that require you to do something of a different genre, should it be that genre too? That isn't how it works.
Microtransactions are EVIL!
Vitiated1
1,253,828
Vitiated1
Posted on 26 September 19 at 00:09
Epidemic is right, there aren't enough pure racing elements to justify the inclusion of the genre
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