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New Game Collection Flag: "Exclude From Contests"

AuthorMessage
zzUrbanSpaceman
Posted on 05 January 17 at 01:26, Edited on 05 January 17 at 23:19 by zzUrbanSpaceman
The Game Collection feature has recently been used by site contests such as the UHH and my own off-site contest, the Random To Do List, to determine what games should and should not be used when picking achievements.

This works well, but does present a couple of problems.

Typically, to avoid having a game selected, you need to mark it as "no longer owned" or similar, however some people take issue with this because the game may well still be owned, they just don't want to have it show up in a contest. This runs counter to the primary purpose of the Game Collection feature, which should first and foremost be about having an accurate representation of your collection.

To fix this, I propose that a new flag is added to the game collection feature called "Exclude From Contests".

This would be a completely independent flag, and would simply be checkbox (basic yes/no or on/off).

The flag would default to OFF for new games.

On introducing the feature, existing collections should have games that are "No longer owned" (and some other statuses) flagged ON.

You should be able to filter for this setting, and multi-edit this setting.

When changing the ownership status for a game, there should be a reminder or a method to update the contest flag on the spot, with some sensible defaults.
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Our Afflictions
Posted on 05 January 17 at 03:00
I think every achievement in the collection should be defaulted to Yes with no option of changing it.
zzUrbanSpaceman
Posted on 05 January 17 at 03:04
Our Afflictions said:
I think every achievement in the collection should be defaulted to Yes with no option of changing it.
If that is a desired form of competition then this contest flag could be ignored in that case. This feature isn't really meant to be a place to discuss the various stances on whether games should or should not be included in any particularly competition though - the fact is, that's the way the contests currently work, and it's working against the design of the game collection feature.
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angelsk
405,017
angelsk
Posted on 05 January 17 at 08:11
+1. I'm lacking spare votes and eit her way they don't show on mobile
RayvenMorrigana
1,092,778
RayvenMorrigana
Posted on 05 January 17 at 14:50
+1. This would be very useful for me as I own all games in my Games Collection but, due to a lack of HDD space, do not have most of the Xbox One games downloaded as I currently own over 200 digital games on that platform. This would let me flag what I currently have downloaded for a competition.
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KenH2k4
396,692
KenH2k4
Posted on 05 January 17 at 17:22
I like this. I keep all of my owned games in my collection, but don't necessarily want to play games like Guitar Hero or DJ Hero since the peripherals are packed away somewhere. I want to use my Game Collection to actually keep track of my games, so this would help me in both the Random To Do List Challenge and UHH. I don't care enough to manipulate my collection, but if something like this existed I'd use it.

I do agree that by default everything should be ready for competition, so maybe make it an "Exclude from contests" option
Twinkling82
133,072
Twinkling82
Posted on 05 January 17 at 17:47, Edited on 05 January 17 at 17:47 by Twinkling82
+1

I also do like this idea. I think this would also kill any confusion between hide game and game collection setting that we've experienced, especially in the UHH.
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Skeptical Mario
Posted on 05 January 17 at 18:32
I think I'd prefer if it was "exclude from random". Contests could still look at the flag, and the game would also be excluded from adding random achievements to your to-do list.
Twinkling82
133,072
Twinkling82
Posted on 05 January 17 at 19:32
I think we can discuss the name of it later - or let Rich and company decide what would fit in the best. Primary reason it exist would be "exclude from contests", so my opinion would lean towards that.

If the To-do list got some improvements (wishlist item, please support if you would like it to happen), there could easily be added a filter for excluding "not for contests" achievements.
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zzUrbanSpaceman
Posted on 05 January 17 at 23:20
I agree, "exclude from contests" is a better approach, and it could just be a tickbox rather than a dropdown selection. I've updated the OP to suit.
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angelsk
405,017
angelsk
Posted on 12 January 17 at 12:18
There are always going to be games that we want to exclude from the contests for whatever reason; this makes it more transparent on everyone's game list. And as people have said, means you don't have to change ownership for stuff you do own, but may not have downloaded, or just want to wait to play as it's the 3rd in a series or some other reason (e.g: I suck at Sonic)
Twinkling82
133,072
Twinkling82
Posted on 12 January 17 at 14:52
Adding to the idea. We might need a switch for white and blacklisting from the eligible games for contests. Standard could be white listing them - which means forcing people to find the switch as the bare minimum before they can add themselves to the contest.

The opt-in by marking games as eligible for contests would also make more people look through their games so we don't get all those "oh noes I forgot to go through my game collection" and "what? I did go through my games... oh wait, game collection? I just hid my games, I thought this was what I was supposed to do." posts we have seen.
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Mobius Evalon
469,747
Mobius Evalon
Posted on 13 January 17 at 07:33
Ultimately I think that accommodating all the uses of the play status of a game is going to be a recurring headache for the people who make these features. I've already noticed new ones popping up in the dropdown list.

I think the easiest way to accomplish all of this in the end is simply to allow the user to set any arbitrary (alphanumeric) value to the play status of the game. Perhaps pro users could make more of them than the freeloaders, but any status created by the user could be selectable for any other game in the collection.
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Twinkling82
133,072
Twinkling82
Posted on 13 January 17 at 08:12
That is just crazy. How would the system know that that custom made status is not supposed to go in contests or to do list?
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I8ITackyticsI8I
Posted on 13 January 17 at 14:26
I have to agree with Twinkling. Coding doesn't work that you can make up your own criteria and then it will just understand what should be used for one purpose or another. It needs to be consistent across all users..
Mobius Evalon
469,747
Mobius Evalon
Posted on 13 January 17 at 18:31, Edited on 13 January 17 at 18:44 by Mobius Evalon
No matter what the status is, someone on the other end has to specifically look for it.

There is no programmatical difference if e.g. TA were to officially add a "Exclude from UHH" status or if an individual user would add a "disincludeUHH2017" status on their own. Either one would have to be specifically checked for on the other end to be disincluded from UHH.

The only actual difference is that instead of having the TA site developer(s) add every status that comes to the userbase on a whim, the contest pages could simply say "add the games you wish to exclude to a 'disincludeUHH2017' play status," in much the same way I remember some contest requiring a specific alphanumeric string in your motto on Xbox Live.

It's what developers consider a scope of use, and items that apply to specific competitions of such a small sliver of the userbase have a very small usefulness scope which means leaving them to their own devices with custom plat statuses is faster and easier for everybody involved. Stuff like excluding from the todo list has a usefulness to (probably literally) everybody so that one in particular would be more useful as a hardcoded status.
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ChinDocta
911,921
ChinDocta
Posted on 13 January 17 at 22:56
Mobius Evalon said:
No matter what the status is, someone on the other end has to specifically look for it.

There is no programmatical difference if e.g. TA were to officially add a "Exclude from UHH" status or if an individual user would add a "disincludeUHH2017" status on their own. Either one would have to be specifically checked for on the other end to be disincluded from UHH.

The only actual difference is that instead of having the TA site developer(s) add every status that comes to the userbase on a whim, the contest pages could simply say "add the games you wish to exclude to a 'disincludeUHH2017' play status," in much the same way I remember some contest requiring a specific alphanumeric string in your motto on Xbox Live.

It's what developers consider a scope of use, and items that apply to specific competitions of such a small sliver of the userbase have a very small usefulness scope which means leaving them to their own devices with custom plat statuses is faster and easier for everybody involved. Stuff like excluding from the todo list has a usefulness to (probably literally) everybody so that one in particular would be more useful as a hardcoded status.
So still modifying the GC in a way that may not accurately reflect your game collection, but with user created values instead of TA given ones. Doesn't do much for the problem that this is trying to address now does it.
Mobius Evalon
469,747
Mobius Evalon
Posted on 13 January 17 at 23:33
ChinDocta said:
Mobius Evalon said:
No matter what the status is, someone on the other end has to specifically look for it.

There is no programmatical difference if e.g. TA were to officially add a "Exclude from UHH" status or if an individual user would add a "disincludeUHH2017" status on their own. Either one would have to be specifically checked for on the other end to be disincluded from UHH.

The only actual difference is that instead of having the TA site developer(s) add every status that comes to the userbase on a whim, the contest pages could simply say "add the games you wish to exclude to a 'disincludeUHH2017' play status," in much the same way I remember some contest requiring a specific alphanumeric string in your motto on Xbox Live.

It's what developers consider a scope of use, and items that apply to specific competitions of such a small sliver of the userbase have a very small usefulness scope which means leaving them to their own devices with custom plat statuses is faster and easier for everybody involved. Stuff like excluding from the todo list has a usefulness to (probably literally) everybody so that one in particular would be more useful as a hardcoded status.
So still modifying the GC in a way that may not accurately reflect your game collection, but with user created values instead of TA given ones. Doesn't do much for the problem that this is trying to address now does it.
Why not? Play statuses don't do much besides create sorting tags as it is, so letting users create whatever statuses they want on a whim sounds a lot like it's solving lots of problems.

In the case of contests, using whatever play status specified by the contest to include or exclude titles from the competition completely sweeps that problem off the board too.
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ChinDocta
911,921
ChinDocta
Posted on 13 January 17 at 23:42
It doesn't solve the problem of having an accurate Game Collection whilst still showing which games we'd like to exclude from a contest. That is the problem this is trying to address. Solving other problems is not the purpose of this wish.

If the contest is requiring a game to have a specific play status to exclude it, it is still making the user manipulate their Game Collection in a way that may not accurately reflect their actual game collection. Also I'm sure there would be a ton of users who would get the play status marginally wrong and have those games included when they didn't want to.
Twinkling82
133,072
Twinkling82
Posted on 13 January 17 at 23:56
Couldn't this be solved by making users go through their game collection when registering for an event? Say:

Click "register for this event"
Game collection page appears with an explanation box at the top
User can go through the game collection right them and there or
"Remind me later" and user can set date and time to get a PM
If the user haven't gone through the games before the event begins, user is automatically kicked from the event - of course with a 24 hour warning by PM.

I do think this is somewhat stretching it, but eh...
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