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New Achievement Flag: "Quick Achievement".

Not planned
AuthorMessage
MrZombieChicken
Posted on 18 July 17 at 23:36, Edited on 18 July 17 at 23:39 by MrZombieChicken
Note: Original thread hidden using spoiler tags. You can refer to it for further info.

This has been truly a team effort. We have discussed at length the merits of this flag. Through their arguments, many people have shaped the proposed flag into the following "semi-finalized" version of what we envision it to be. That however, does not mean that it cannot be refined further. Anyone should feel welcome to join the discussion and voice their suggestions and concerns.
A big thanks to Sashamorning for putting together this draft to illustrate what the flag is about.
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Quick Flag:

These achievements can be earned in a very short period of time after beginning a game for the first time.

The Quick flag is applied to achievements that can be completed with no more than about 10 minutes of play time, and require very little skill to complete. Only achievements that can be earned on one console with one or more controllers qualify for the Quick flag. Certain other factors may apply, such as having access to online multiplayer, input devices other than the system default, or purchasing content.

The following are Quick:
The Simpsons GamePress START to PlayThe Press START to Play achievement in The Simpsons Game worth 5 pointsEasiest achievement...ever
ChimeFairy GodmotherThe Fairy Godmother achievement in Chime worth 50 pointsYou've done a great thing and made the world a better place. Here's a little gift!
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & BoltsPaparazziThe Paparazzi achievement in Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts worth 18 pointsTake a photo and upload it to Xbox LIVE, or take five photos


The following achievements are Quick:
The GunstringerReal Big Spendin'The Real Big Spendin' achievement in The Gunstringer worth 19 pointsBuy "Real Big Shootin'" and get a free achievement!
Never Alone (Kisima Ingitchuna)Secret AchievementThe Secret Achievement achievement in Never Alone (Kisima Ingitchuna) worth 31 pointsContinue playing to unlock this secret achievement
These achievements require purchasable downloaded content, but are still a quick completion.

Chess UltraStranger DangerThe Stranger Danger achievement in Chess Ultra worth 16 pointsCreate a random online game
This achievement does not require an actual game to be played.



The following are not Quick:
Battlefield 1943Melee ManThe Melee Man achievement in Battlefield 1943 worth 21 pointsMelee kill one enemy player
Achievements like this require some skill in a public game.

Prominence PokerMillionaireThe Millionaire achievement in Prominence Poker worth 222 pointsReach 1 million bankroll
This achievement can be earned by purchasing content, but the normal method of earning the achievement takes a lot of time.

Star BallsSeriously, Take a BreakThe Seriously, Take a Break achievement in Star Balls worth 193 pointsSpend 500 hours in levels
Achievements like this take a significant amount of time.



*** Spoiler - click to reveal ***
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KenH2k4
310,536
KenH2k4
Posted on 08 July 17 at 02:45
I was thinking if suggesting this, but not as a flag. The flag would be ok, but I think it'd be cool to open it up to a vote or just use times won and put a "Bean Dive Achievement" in the hub so you know what to go for at first glance. The flag would be helpful to point out all of them, if there are multiple short achievements
MrZombieChicken
Posted on 08 July 17 at 03:05
Yes, and the flag helps in other situation when you're not starting a game and you have already earned the easiest achievement. It helps you identify other quicky ones to maintain streaks...etc.
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Jblacq
248,958
Jblacq
Posted on 08 July 17 at 13:42
I don't know if a flag is necessary for this. FYI, there's a forum post for tracking these achievements:
Bean Dive Guide - Version 2
MrZombieChicken
Posted on 08 July 17 at 22:00, Edited on 08 July 17 at 22:15 by MrZombieChicken
Jblacq said:
I don't know if a flag is necessary for this. FYI, there's a forum post for tracking these achievements:
Bean Dive Guide - Version 2
That guide only works if you want to pop a single achievement in a game you've yet to start. It may not even be a quick achievement. Eternal Sonata for example needs 60 minutes to get the first achievement.

The flag would identify ALL easy achievements. Also, the bean dive guide will always need to be maintained, is inconvenient to access, and there is no way it can possibly list every game on the site.
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LuckyConquerer2
Posted on 09 July 17 at 02:04
Would not want an additional flag for this, as it is too specific. The Bean Dive Guide is useful enough. Not voting down though.
MrZombieChicken
Posted on 09 July 17 at 03:10, Edited on 09 July 17 at 03:29 by MrZombieChicken
LuckyConquerer2 said:
Would not want an additional flag for this, as it is too specific. The Bean Dive Guide is useful enough. Not voting down though.
Is it any more specific than the "time consuming" flag? wink

Also the Bean Dive guide has not been updated in a year.
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LuckyConquerer2
Posted on 09 July 17 at 10:20
The time consuming flag is really useful.

If the OP is not updating the Guide, make a new one.
Shadow Kisuragi
Posted on 09 July 17 at 12:35, Edited on 09 July 17 at 12:35 by Shadow Kisuragi
Zombie, you're looking at the wrong thread. The original hasn't been updated because it transferred to a new thread that had better formatting, and the original is just used for posting to keep the new one clean:
Bean Dive Guide - Version 2

It's only missing a few edits, and Beanpotter's been keeping it up.
MrZombieChicken
Posted on 09 July 17 at 14:12, Edited on 10 July 17 at 13:51 by MrZombieChicken
My points are still valid:

1- That thread is neither comprehensive nor up to date. The last update was back in April and it only has a few hundred games. The one game I referenced in my OP (Warriors Orochi 3) for example, is missing.

2- It lists only 1 -not necessarily quick- achievement per game, so it's usefulness is limited to a Bean Dive. The flag would be useful anytime and not just during bean dive events. Most people do not Bean Dive. There are 365K+ users registered here and less than 1250 registered for Bean Dive 2017. I won't even try to guess what fraction of those users are even aware of that thread or use it. At the moment, the 3+ year old thread has been viewed only 13,540 times.

3- I will argue that the "quick flag" is even more useful than the time consuming one. I am sure a lot of people at one time or another, searched for a quick achievement to pop. I cannot imagine many gamers intentionally seeked out time consuming achievements to tackle outside the game they're currently playing. I am in no way saying that the time consuming flag is useless, it is very helpful.

I am not trying to disparage the Bean Dive guide. It has it's uses and the effort that was taken to create and maintain it is very admirable. I am just saying that it is not a substitute for the flag I am suggesting. If anything, having the flag would render the guide obsolete since it would be a more comprehensive, accessible and visible substitute.
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LuckyConquerer2
Posted on 09 July 17 at 14:57
The quick flag will only be helpful at the start of a game, nothing more as everyone has different progress. What defines a quick achievement varies per progress.

It is too limited. The time consuming flag warns that it takes a long time (10 hours or more solely for that achievement).
ChinDocta
614,843
ChinDocta
Posted on 09 July 17 at 15:01
LuckyConquerer2 said:
The quick flag will only be helpful at the start of a game, nothing more as everyone has different progress. What defines a quick achievement varies per progress.

It is too limited. The time consuming flag warns that it takes a long time (10 hours or more solely for that achievement).
20 hours now, 10 was the old time.
MrZombieChicken
Posted on 09 July 17 at 15:32
LuckyConquerer2 said:
The quick flag will only be helpful at the start of a game, nothing more as everyone has different progress. What defines a quick achievement varies per progress.

It is too limited. The time consuming flag warns that it takes a long time (10 hours or more solely for that achievement).
Not necessarily, but I will agree with you at it is true for most games.

There are many games where you can get multiple achievements fast by using the tutorial or other modes. Last night for example, I got one achievement in Snipe Elite V2 in the tutorial. I could've gotten several more if I wanted to. I will save those for a later date when I need to get a quick achievement.
While a lot of achievements are part of story progression, many can be gotten very quickly through playing other modes (multiplayer, duel, training..etc) or doing an unusual activity early on in the game (like jump 100 times, or dying a certain way..etc).

I think it's very helpful to be able to determine which achievements I can get in under 10 minutes irregardless of where I am in the game.

In the end this is all a popularity contest. What may be useful for you may not be for the next person. Each person has their own priorities, processes and needs. I am hoping enough people perceive value in this flag to get some momentum behind the idea. If that doesn't happen....oh well! smile
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Twinkling82
122,683
Twinkling82
Posted on 09 July 17 at 18:24
LuckyConquerer2 said:
The quick flag will only be helpful at the start of a game, nothing more as everyone has different progress. What defines a quick achievement varies per progress.

It is too limited. The time consuming flag warns that it takes a long time (10 hours or more solely for that achievement).
What if the "quick achievement" flag would only be added to oddball achievements, that can be done from the get go of the game?

Say.. I believe, but I can be wrong, the achievement in Red Dead Redemption for binding a person to the railway tracks and let a train run over them, can be done from you load up the game the first time. This would fit for the flag.

Achievements for doing a tutorial might fit too, but this is something up for a debate. It doesn't have to be one achievement only in each game with the flag. Unless we rename it "Bean Dive achievement" flag.

But all in all.. since I don't really Bean Dive, I am not the one to be of an opinion, but if asked. I don't think this is needed, we have ratios on achievements for a quick glance of what can be done quick.. presumably.
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LuckyConquerer2
Posted on 09 July 17 at 18:31
I don't think it justifies a new flag.
MrZombieChicken
Posted on 09 July 17 at 19:37
Twinkling, TA ratios can be very misleading as I've illustrated in the OP. I have several achievements on my "Easy Achievements" with a ratio of 1.00 that I can't pop because they take several hours of play. The easiest to obtain achievements are not always the most commonly obtained achievements, which is what the TA ratio measures.
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Twinkling82
122,683
Twinkling82
Posted on 09 July 17 at 20:34
I know, and I concur with you, to a point. As Conquerer says, it doesn't justifies a new flag, and I have to side with him. We need to prioritize what is really helpful and cool functions, versus if something easy could be made even easier. And I think this flag be just that.

I've been asking for recent votes on my reviews (as solutions has had it since day one) for 5 years, and it has been ignored. With what little work would be needed to do that versus a new flag where a new icon would be needed AND GI would have to apply that flag... I would want the recent votes thing over this ANY day.
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FreshAspek
215,671
FreshAspek
Posted on 09 July 17 at 20:40, Edited on 09 July 17 at 20:41 by FreshAspek
This would surely be helpful beyond just starting a game. Things that can be done within ~10 minutes of starting (edit: loading) the game with no previous progress required. May not be that many achievements but would still be helpful.

Only reason I can think of people being opposed is that they are afraid of ratio decay lol (jk smile)
Twinkling82
122,683
Twinkling82
Posted on 09 July 17 at 20:49
FreshAspek said:
This would surely be helpful beyond just starting a game. Things that can be done within ~10 minutes of starting (edit: loading) the game with no previous progress required. May not be that many achievements but would still be helpful.

Only reason I can think of people being opposed is that they are afraid of ratio decay lol (jk smile)
The issue here is not all oddball achievements would apply to the flag. Sometimes a function is locked behind an unlock sometimes an oddball achievement can't be done because an area is locked away (thinking GTA III with the bridges being closed until you progress the story).

I think there's too many variables here.
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Shadow Kisuragi
Posted on 09 July 17 at 22:33, Edited on 09 July 17 at 22:34 by Shadow Kisuragi
MrZombieChicken said:
Twinkling, TA ratios can be very misleading as I've illustrated in the OP. I have several achievements on my "Easy Achievements" with a ratio of 1.00 that I can't pop because they take several hours of play. The easiest to obtain achievements are not always the most commonly obtained achievements, which is what the TA ratio measures.
Chaos Rings (WP)Clear the Escher scenario.The Clear the Escher scenario. achievement in Chaos Rings (WP) worth 10 pointsClear the Escher scenario.


...and, 6 hours later to get the first achievement for 1.01 ratio. laugh

There may be a few variables here, but I feel it's still worth discussing its merit. While I may be a minority, I feel having a tiered Time Consuming flag would be interesting, considering that some achievements are 100h+ on their own and 20h+ doesn't exactly give much information at a glance, as it's 20h+ making progress on ONLY that achievement.
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