Game Discussion: Celeste Forum

You can unlock achievements in assist mode.

AuthorMessage
SpiralGamerpro
1,319,424
SpiralGamerpro
Posted on 05 January 19 at 21:23
0-1 hour
sorr yfor my england
Fooga
1,087,138
Fooga
Posted on 07 January 19 at 08:36
Aloriain said:
Anyone got an estimate on completion time using assist mode?
6-8 hours. Ignore the troll.
SpiralGamerpro
1,319,424
SpiralGamerpro
Posted on 07 January 19 at 08:43
If you're not even going to attempt actually playing the game, you deserve that kind of response
sorr yfor my england
ImJustYourDaddy
Posted on 07 January 19 at 13:12
I mean, if you do only use assist mode, it'd probably take like a maximum of 3 hours
Santino
Aloriain
334,140
Aloriain
Posted on 07 January 19 at 13:32
SpiralGamerpro said:
If you're not even going to attempt actually playing the game, you deserve that kind of response
I guess that is like how you played through Avatar?
ImJustYourDaddy
Posted on 07 January 19 at 13:52
Aloriain said:
SpiralGamerpro said:
If you're not even going to attempt actually playing the game, you deserve that kind of response
I guess that is like how you played through Avatar?
But, everyone would tell him 0-1 hour on Avatar...
Santino
Fooga
1,087,138
Fooga
Posted on 07 January 19 at 15:22
SpiralGamerpro said:
If you're not even going to attempt actually playing the game, you deserve that kind of response
He’s just asking info on the game. That’s what this site is all about so no, he doesn’t deserve to be mislead because he asked about game time. Sheesh.
planting42
1,181,232
planting42
Posted on 07 January 19 at 17:43, Edited on 07 January 19 at 17:46 by planting42
SpiralGamerpro said:
If you're not even going to attempt actually playing the game, you deserve that kind of response
Just because you think everyone has to play stupidly hard games doesn't make your opinion any more right than those of us that play the game with assists.

Pretty sure TA forum guidelines say 'Don't be a dick.'

ImJustYourDaddy said:
I mean, if you do only use assist mode, it'd probably take like a maximum of 3 hours
For the main game, maybe 4-5 if you aren't using a guide. Screw that minigame.
RJ7
131,756
RJ7
Posted on 07 January 19 at 22:45
Wow I'm actually glad to hear that you can unlock the achievements in assist mode!

I am not very good at platformers as it is, and am already struggling with the second level with the character chasing me. I really like the art and music for this game but am just simply not good at it.
Fooga
1,087,138
Fooga
Posted on 07 January 19 at 23:00, Edited on 07 January 19 at 23:01 by Fooga
planting42 said:
SpiralGamerpro said:
If you're not even going to attempt actually playing the game, you deserve that kind of response
Just because you think everyone has to play stupidly hard games doesn't make your opinion any more right than those of us that play the game with assists.

Pretty sure TA forum guidelines say 'Don't be a dick.'
Funny thing is his only completed games are almost all quick and easy ones. A simple case of “pot meet kettle”. laugh

Thanks for posting your time as well. I’ll be starting it this week. Hear nothing but good things about Celeste. smile
SpiralGamerpro
1,319,424
SpiralGamerpro
Posted on 07 January 19 at 23:23
A: Completing Celeste without Assists was never about showcasing my skill or putting myself on a pedestal above others. Rather, it was about enjoying a very fun platformer the way it was intended to be played.

B: I would love to see you complete a game like Trackmania Turbo, Trials Fusion (360), or Marble Void if all I do is "quick and easy" completions.
There's a Pall Mall somewhere on Everest
planting42
1,181,232
planting42
Posted on 08 January 19 at 00:14
SpiralGamerpro said:
A: Completing Celeste without Assists was never about showcasing my skill or putting myself on a pedestal above others. Rather, it was about enjoying a very fun platformer the way it was intended to be played.

B: I would love to see you complete a game like Trackmania Turbo, Trials Fusion (360), or Marble Void if all I do is "quick and easy" completions.
Once more since it apparently was overlooked. The DEV wanted it like this, therefore, its the way its meant to be played.
It was a conscious decision to allow players in Assist Mode to still unlock achievements.

Achievements, for us, are not status symbols, and it would be counter to the philosophy of Celeste to treat them that way. For us, they're a fun way to commemorate your progress. Or in some cases they function like a dare - a "try to figure out how to do this!" from developer to player.

We don't think that a player who enjoys Celeste in Assist Mode is playing the game "wrong", or is somehow less deserving of taking part in the achievements system. If you're interested in collecting the achievements we want you to do so in the way that is most fun and rewarding for you, whether that is with or without Assist Mode.
Again, forcing YOUR opinion of how to play on others doesn't make it the ONE CORRECT opinion. The devs disagree with your narrow-minded assessment.
RadicalSniper99
Posted on 08 January 19 at 00:37
I think this discussion is a lot about the reputation and how people interpret the person saying it. I'm going to say what I can and try to bridge a gap of opinion.

Celeste dev's did put in assist mode to make it accessible to everyone. I don't think Spiral or anyone on that side of the no-using assist mode is against that idea. Not everybody will have the time and dedication needed to complete the game assist-less. It's hard. And the developers understand that. But they also say in the Assist Mode activation screen that the "intended" play style is without it. And then as you struggle and can't do it, assist mode is there to help with the final push.

The assumed hostility here is very much about the fact that people don't actually play the game the intended method at all. It's not that people use assist mode so much as they don't actually experience the game at all for what it is without it. In some ways, Spiral's opinion is something devs of games have referred to as "protecting players from ruining a game" by having player's "experience the game in its intended fashion".

And that's the bigger issue (at least in my opinion). I don't know if I'm covering Spiral's opinion, but that's how I interpret and hopefully it helps people understand. Maybe I'm just explaining in a nice way, but hopefully that makes a bit of sense.
Awoo
1,280,607
Awoo
Posted on 08 January 19 at 00:43, Edited on 08 January 19 at 14:43 by Awoo
The way the game is meant to be played is by fully exploring all it has to offer. This goes for every video game ever made.

This game is incredibly well designed in many ways, perhaps most of all in its controls and level design. Everything is fine tuned to an almost obsessive degree, and that tangible effort from the developer is something completely lost upon those who immediately decide to use assists and forego any idea of challenging themselves. There are new movement mechanics introduced late into the B and C sides that completely change the rules of engagement, but assist players can completely ignore these things, never even knowing what they're missing out on. The kind of level design at work here, speaking as a statistical authority on platformers, is not something any developer would wish to be overlooked in their game. As a designer, you want your art to be appreciated for all its worth, and assists were put in as a way gently nudge less skilled players to keep progressing, rather than function as a tool for ungrateful, unappreciative babies to fumble their way through the game, and then going on to give it a perfect rating despite being completely unaware of the actual best qualities it has.

Because no, it's not just that I'm an elitist who likes playing hard games. In fact, most of the hard games I play are complete shit, and the only satisfaction I get from them is the relief when they're done. Celeste is not like that. It's a meticulously designed challenge, perfectly balanced to often teeter on the edge of frustration, but always reward more than it punishes. Are there some people out there who due to physical handicaps literally can't complete some of its content without assists? Undeniably. But even then, I would tell them to try as best as they can, and not to tell themselves bullshit like "I'm bad at platformers", since all that translates into is someone saying they haven't practiced enough.

Bottom line is, everyone enjoys overcoming obstacles. That's basic human nature. This game's particular set of obstacles happen to be especially rewarding ones in a number of ways, and the main point of frustration from those of us who have done the game without assists is that people are voluntarily missing out on something wonderful.
What can change the nature of a man?
planting42
1,181,232
planting42
Posted on 08 January 19 at 00:43, Edited on 08 January 19 at 00:45 by planting42
Sounds a hell of a lot nicer to me.

Everyone plays in their own way. To shit on that is to incur this thread.

That's the bottom line here. If you don't like how others play, keep it to yourself unless you want to read a thread like this.
SpiralGamerpro
1,319,424
SpiralGamerpro
Posted on 08 January 19 at 00:44, Edited on 08 January 19 at 01:12 by SpiralGamerpro
I doubt the developers wanted people to not even attempt the level design they put a great deal of effort into. Their vision of assist mode was probably gradual usage of the various assists, most specifically in regards to slowdown so that gamers could practice difficult sections before trying them without assists. Using all assists at full blast from the start removes anything positive about the game, especially the game's whole message about perseverance. Rather than just accepting that you're bad at the game and giving in extremely easily, maybe practice sections that are giving you trouble and gradually become better at the game. Giving up doesn't get you anywhere in the real world. Hard work and perseverance does.

I would suggest reading this review I've linked below before calling me narrow-minded. I'm not saying that the entirety of Assist Mode should be banned, just that people shouldn't automatically assume the mindset of "I'm not good enough. I need help to do anything in this game," and should instead try to persevere and improve their skills at the game. Madeline conquered the mountain by pushing away the thoughts of "I can't do this" and replaced them with "No, I'm stronger than my demons. I can summit this mountain!" The fact that this community repeatedly assumes the worst of me when my intentions are to better yourselves rather than to explicitly shame anybody who uses Assist Mode is depressing really.

My hobby outside of achievement hunting is rock climbing and mountaineering, and imagine if I said "I can't send a V4. I'll just give up," instead of honing my skills and actually becoming a better climber. Not only would I be robbing myself of the reward that comes through accomplishment after great perseverance, anybody from the climbing community would be critical of that mindset and would encourage me to persevere. They certainly wouldn't make the route easier or featherbag the definition of a V4 to a ridiculous extent to make me feel better.

Assist Mode certainly has positive uses (I am not denying that and have never), such as the ability for disabled gamers to play through Celeste and the ability to choose how much of the assist you want active at any given time. However, it is abundantly clear that many (arguably most) achievement hunters who played this game turned on all assists at full blast within minutes of starting the game and never looked back. Again, for a game about perseverance that contains such wonderful platforming mechanics and level design, I don't think I'm out of line by saying that doing such a thing robs you of a great experience. I understand that this is an achievement community. All of us have played shitty games for easy GS, and all of us look for exploits to make achievements easier. However, I think that the community should be open-minded (tables have turned, huh?) to those of us who also like to have fun playing games and would rather enjoy an excellent game than get the achievements as fast as possible.

Celeste Reviews
There's a Pall Mall somewhere on Everest
planting42
1,181,232
planting42
Posted on 08 January 19 at 00:46, Edited on 08 January 19 at 00:50 by planting42
My mentality is I hate platformers and this offered me a way to enjoy the story without the crap gameplay I detest.

We would also like if you would be open minded and not shit on others that play the game they want. See, it goes both ways. You telling me or others how to play is totally out of line.
planting42
1,181,232
planting42
Posted on 08 January 19 at 00:53
RadicalSniper99 said:
...The assumed hostility here is very much about the fact that people don't actually play the game the intended method at all. It's not that people use assist mode so much as they don't actually experience the game at all for what it is without it.
Hours of frustration with platforming I suck at? I'm ok missing that.

Again,
If you're interested in collecting the achievements we want you to do so in the way that is most fun and rewarding for you, whether that is with or without Assist Mode.
I don't see any mention of 'only using some assists' anywhere in that statement.
Living Legends
Posted on 08 January 19 at 01:02
I enjoy when people still use their opinions as facts and try to use that mind set for their every day debates.

If only they dedicates this much time into understanding instead of posting rethorical statements over and over.

Same mindset like cronus max, getting all riled up because we did a different method.
SpiralGamerpro
1,319,424
SpiralGamerpro
Posted on 08 January 19 at 01:05
Take your own advice
There's a Pall Mall somewhere on Everest